Automated Rally Scoring

[wully]

Hi
Firstly I have no problems with the automated scoring system, getting results quicker is much better.
What I am confused about, is when and under what circumstances you go to a manual system.
During the recent BBL I encountered an issue with my phone not sending the email, for some reason it was saying that email address was not recognised. Realising the problem i spent time speaking to the Rally master confirming the email address, it was correct so i resubmitted the email address on my phone and closed the phone down, restart and resend the emails affected and this cost time.

I completed the rally no further issues very happy having ridden the plan i had devised. It was pointed out at scoring that I had made 1 mistake my last check point, one number wrong it was a costly mistake. But each of my 15 checkpoint emails were sent and received.

While we were eating it became apparent that scoring was not going right and scoring was being done manually.

My question is under what circumstances does scoring become manual, as my understanding was it's your responsibility to have the right email address, submit the checkpoint correctly and ensure that the email gets sent. The exception being if you contest the scoring of a checkpoint.

On Saturday it appears that a number had issues submitting their emails which resulted in manual scoring.

My question is under what circumstances do you manually score, because my understanding is automated was the only scoring method.
It is your responsibility to do it properly and if you didn't tough. Which I know sounds ruthless but my ONE mistake cost me a top 10 finish, which would have been my best ever finish and as somebody who has been laughed at when collecting my certificate in the past. But I accepted it.
It would be upsetting that competitors ahead of me hadn't submitted their emails correctly but they were accepted but I don't know that.

I do feel that the future is automated scoring, but we need to know the circumstances when manual scoring is done.

Myself and Hil had a great day on Saturday, thanks Phil excellent

 

[saphena]

I can't speak with absolute authority about what happened on Saturday cos I wasn't there although I was monitoring from afar.

As far as I can see, the vast bulk of claims were made fully automatically. Those that needed help, not "manual scoring", resulted from a variety of issues including claims coming from unregistered email addresses, imperfectly formatted emails, etc. There was, I believe, a "sudden rush" at the end of the day which meant that the rally team were working things out on the fly and sometimes doing certain things "by hand" when you're working quickly is more effective.

I was reminded only this morning in an unrelated matter that IBR rules tend to be "claim it right or lose it" but with the advent of EBC we have not insisted on having minutely perfect formatting and email conditions so sometimes "manual handling" is needed, not to allow a wrong claim but to cater for the limits of automated processing. For example, a claim from an unregistered address is simply ignored by the scoring system even though the claim is good. (Yes, there is a good reason why that is so) The manual handling in that case is to copy & paste the Subject line into the claims log. The alternative would be to silently reject all claims from a wrong address despite being obviously good claims. We've always said that purely email technical failings shouldn't disadvantage anyone and ruthlessly dropping claims just because they can't be collected automatically seems a step too far. Ten years from now that position should probably change.

Automated processing is getting better with every rally but every now and then you just need a human being to help. I have improved the sender email handling since Saturday so there'll be even fewer occasions needing human help from now on.

 

[wully]

I can't speak with absolute authority about what happened on Saturday cos I wasn't there although I was monitoring from afar.

As far as I can see, the vast bulk of claims were made fully automatically. Those that needed help, not "manual scoring", resulted from a variety of issues including claims coming from unregistered email addresses, imperfectly formatted emails, etc. There was, I believe, a "sudden rush" at the end of the day which meant that the rally team were working things out on the fly and sometimes doing certain things "by hand" when you're working quickly is more effective.

I was reminded only this morning in an unrelated matter that IBR rules tend to be "claim it right or lose it" but with the advent of EBC we have not insisted on having minutely perfect formatting and email conditions so sometimes "manual handling" is needed, not to allow a wrong claim but to cater for the limits of automated processing. For example, a claim from an unregistered address is simply ignored by the scoring system even though the claim is good. (Yes, there is a good reason why that is so) The manual handling in that case is to copy & paste the Subject line into the claims log. The alternative would be to silently reject all claims from a wrong address despite being obviously good claims. We've always said that purely email technical failings shouldn't disadvantage anyone and ruthlessly dropping claims just because they can't be collected automatically seems a step too far. Ten years from now that position should probably change.

Automated processing is getting better with every rally but every now and then you just need a human being to help. I have improved the sender email handling since Saturday so there'll be even fewer occasions needing human help from now on.

Thanks Bob for your reply.

Having read through it I note several issues.
1. Volume of submissions at the end of the rally.
2. The use of email addresses not registered for submission of claims.
3. Format of the email.

I thought the idea of electronic scoring system was to stop the jam at the end of the rally. The idea being that you submit your claim at the checkpoint before you leave it. May be we should go back to paper submission.
When you enter the rally you nominate a email address, if that is not used it causes problems, then why are they accepted? the registration should state that this email address should be used to send the claims.
It was very clear how claims should be formatted in the rally book and newsletter. Rally no Checkpoint code odo time , no commas or full stops. So why are they being accepted?

I know electronic scoring is new, but now is the time to get the rules right. I think that this is my 5th or 6th rally using electronic scoring and I suffered losing many claims, but I worked hard on my systems and it works.

Bob can I thankyou for your hard work developing and implementing the scoring system, but it's only as good as the people who use it. People won't change their habits until they get penalised.

 

[saphena]

People won't change their habits until they get penalised.

They were, I should have made that clear. Points were deducted in response to the need for manual handling.

The bulk at the end though is still slicker than the paper bulk at the end. I don't want to encourage it but even if ALL the claims were submitted at the end, we'd still be better off than using the old paper methods.

I shall put more effort into training the rally team next time!

 

[Stephen!]

Anyone needing an example of a proprtly run all-electronically scored rally need look no further than the LDX and Heart of Texas rallies. Every bonus was submitted using an app. Immediate feedback from the app was given on the success of the submission (but not the outcome of acceptance by the scorer). No futzing about with email, no wondering if it was properly submitted. Every submission was followed by an email to your registered account with the details of the submission and a hyperlink to the image you sent. After several days of submitting bonuses from the road, our scoring process at the checkpoint and again at the finish took less than a minute.

Scorer: "Are these all your submissions and is that the score you expected?"

Us: "Yes."

Scorer: "Sign here, see you at dinner."

Sure, there is a lot to be said for standing in a stuffy hallway surrounded by 75 of your closest and smelliest friends waiting your turn to score when all you want is a cold drink and a warm bed, but there is a lot to like about a properly run, all electronically scored event as well.

 

[Shawn K]

I don't have any other rallies to compare to (HoT was my first), but I do remember being impressed with how well organized and streamlined the Heart of Texas Rally was. I may not know rallies, but I know organization, and Paul and his team had it down to a science.

 

[GarminDave]

I think one participant lost their phone early in the Rally and subsequently used another phone to submit claims. This using the wrong eMail which resulted in penalties. I on the other hand took the wrong photo!

 

[stig of the dump]

"Immediate feedback from the app was given on the success of the submission"
i've requested this received message when we started using electronic scoring in the uk still not got it or an explanation why it cant be used, just a no. it would improve things from the rallyists point of view. given up on the issue now,