Garmin 660 Question

[tdragger]

I have ridden with a TomTom Rider for several years and it served me well but I wanted to move to Garmin as the rally planning tools seem to be better for it.

So early this year I picked up a new-in-the-box Zumo 660 and have been on several rides. One thing that I can't seem to get right is the adjustment for routing on the gps unit. It seems like it wants to route me via the shortest route despite the fact that it is set to go the fastest route.

For instance, I was leaving a gas stop on the west side of Montgomery, AL planning to head north towards Chattanooga, TN. The gps wanted to route me on some backroads which would have been the shortest route by about 5 miles over the obviously fastest route of running up the Interstate towards Birmingham.

If this is normal then I'm frankly very disappointed in the Garmin. The routing preference has been checked and confirmed several times. Any thoughts?

 

[Kimmie]

I had mine all set for a few years now and it worked a treat. But just recently it had a little conniption on a SS1600 and just shut down and I lost all data and all settings.
A fellow rider had a look at reset everything but still didn't work.

Anyway, plugged it into the laptop a week later after finally getting it to hold charge and now I have the same problem as you.
I'm going to try and reset all the setting myself again and hopefully that will fix it.

 

[Ziggy]

I have ridden with a TomTom Rider for several years and it served me well but I wanted to move to Garmin as the rally planning tools seem to be better for it.

So early this year I picked up a new-in-the-box Zumo 660 and have been on several rides. One thing that I can't seem to get right is the adjustment for routing on the gps unit. It seems like it wants to route me via the shortest route despite the fact that it is set to go the fastest route.

For instance, I was leaving a gas stop on the west side of Montgomery, AL planning to head north towards Chattanooga, TN. The gps wanted to route me on some backroads which would have been the shortest route by about 5 miles over the obviously fastest route of running up the Interstate towards Birmingham.

If this is normal then I'm frankly very disappointed in the Garmin. The routing preference has been checked and confirmed several times. Any thoughts?

Hi tdragger & Kimmie ...

Switch on 660
Select > Tools
Select > Settings
Select > Navigation

You will see your Route Preference is set to shortest Route .. Select as required

Recalculation mode ... Set to off or Prompted .. or Auto if you always want it to recalculate which your Route Preference...


Also check Avoidances are set as you require .. The Avoidance will push the unit to recalculate if it's set to Auto .. Best to put on Prompted until you get your settings.



....

To Test .... Enjoy a days ride


.

 

[tdragger]

Thank, Ziggy. I have confirmed over and over that the Route Preference is set to Fastest Route yet it seems to try to calc based on Shortest. Performing a map update and software patch today to see if this addresses the issue.

 

[Ziggy]

Thank, Ziggy. I have confirmed over and over that the Route Preference is set to Fastest Route yet it seems to try to calc based on Shortest. Performing a map update and software patch today to see if this addresses the issue.

Are you using Basecamp to cal your route first ?


.

 

[tdragger]

yep. Basecamp and Google. A very exact trace on Google yields 1567 miles.

Here's another example. Google and Basecamp had the route around Spartanburg, SC on I-85. However, the 660 routed me through town on Business I-85. The speed limit dropped to 55 from 70.



In the scenario below the route on I-85 is 0.6 miles longer but it is a minute faster. I would expect the 660 to see this and route accordingly. This is a small but clear example. A much more egregious error happened later in the day.

 

[tdragger]

Here's the bigger error. I had stopped for gas in Montgomery, AL with my next stop being in Chattanooga, TN. The plan was to ride the Interstate route shown below in blue (234 miles in 3h26m), however, the 660 was insisting that I take the far-right gray route (211 miles in 3h39min). That is my concern.

 

[Ziggy]

Here's the bigger error. I had stopped for gas in Montgomery, AL with my next stop being in Chattanooga, TN. The plan was to ride the Interstate route shown below in blue (234 miles in 3h26m), however, the 660 was insisting that I take the far-right gray route (211 miles in 3h39min). That is my concern.

View attachment 295

I can see your problem and I know from experience that sometimes the maps don't reflect real life however I've found that most of the time it's good.
The 660 mapping is an older system which is still very good and I would not stop using it but when I compare it to the 590 they do come up with different routes.

If your doing the planning on Basecamp then make sure that this is also set to Fastest time for calculation.
Configure a route and send it to the 660.
660 recalculation should be set to off or Prompted... the 660 when you then use it by selecting the custom route will not vary from it unless you turm off the route in which it will ask if you want it to recalculate ... Answer No.

If your on the fly as the example above you can force the 660 to take the longer route/fastest if the 660 does not calculate it as you would expect ..
Like Basecamp you can put in Co-0rdinates to force the route you want then follow ...

When putting in your custom map it will allow you to see whats its calculated and give you the option of Fastest Route, Shortest Route, off Road, Avoid Motorways (Hwy) if the route does not look right with the distance and time displayed the insert a Co-0rdinate by the browse map to push the route you want. save and run ...



Hope this helps as a workaround ..
.

 

[Steve Bracken]

What you are suffering from are the different algorithms used to calculate route times.

BaseCamp uses what you specify as average speeds on different classes of road, and it ignores speed limits. However, the 660 doesn't know anything about that, so it recalculates the route based upon its own algorithm, and what it knows about the posted speed limits along the route. So in its mind, the route it is presenting is the fastest route.

There are a few ways to deal with this, but the best way is to use "shaping points" that force the GPS to calculate the route on the roads you want it to take. In the above example, a shaping point at the apex of the bend on the blue route above would have fixed it.

Crucial to all Zumos is to set the Avoidance for Unpaved Roads. If you do not do this then the Garmin will route you down many miles of dirt, especially in Texas where it is likely to assume an average road speed of up to 65 mph ... on gravel. If you set the Avoidance it will then only route you on Unpaved roads where there is no paved alternative.

Do not ask me how I found this out!

Edit: Just to add ... The 660 also operates on a "Learning Algorithm". This is a useless feature designed only to ensure that you do not arrive at a Rally finish in a timely manner. What it does is predict and offer routes based upon what it has learned about your driving speed on various classes of highway.

What this means to you is that if you just spent a month pootling around your home district, then it will base its routes on very modest driving speeds. In the above examples ... If you regularly ride the Interstate at or just below the posted speed limit, but ride other divided highways at or slightly above (not uncommon driving pattern), then it will assume you will make better time by taking the shorter route shown above.

If you have spent the previous seven days flying around a 48/10, then it will, the following Monday, have you arriving at work almost before you leave home. It cannot be turned off and it's a nightmare.

 

[tdragger]

Oh boy. Thanks for the write up, Steve. Do you have a recommendation for an alternative to the 660 that doesn't suffer from the same "features"?

 

[Steve Bracken]

Despite all that, I quite like the 660. As long as you understand what it can, and cannot do, it really works quite well.

I supplement mine with a 550 which has none of those disadvantages. I have no idea if the 590 and 595 behave this way, but I suspect not or I likely would have heard by now.

Garmin Montana is well worth a look for those who regularly create complex routes with multiple points. Overkill for a Cert Ride or vacation, but very useful for Rallying.

If you don't need waterproof, the Garmin Dezl 770 is an awesome unit at a decent price.

 

[biquer]

I've had 550s, 660s and now a 590 and a tomtom. Of all of the Zumos the 660 range is the worst for this kind of thing, irrespective of how it's set up.

 

[Jon Kerr]

I use the Montana for rallying and long rides. I love it. I recently got the DEZL 770 but cannot comment bc I haven't used it extensively.

 

[Indytriumph]

I had the Montana on the bike during the Butt Lite as a second GPS. The Butt Lite is the first time I used it for a rally. I learned a lot about the unit during and afterwards. I must say that I feel in love with it. It has become my favorite GPS.

 

[Becca]

What you are suffering from are the different algorithms used to calculate route times.

BaseCamp uses what you specify as average speeds on different classes of road, and it ignores speed limits. However, the 660 doesn't know anything about that, so it recalculates the route based upon its own algorithm, and what it knows about the posted speed limits along the route. So in its mind, the route it is presenting is the fastest route.

There are a few ways to deal with this, but the best way is to use "shaping points" that force the GPS to calculate the route on the roads you want it to take. In the above example, a shaping point at the apex of the bend on the blue route above would have fixed it.

Crucial to all Zumos is to set the Avoidance for Unpaved Roads. If you do not do this then the Garmin will route you down many miles of dirt, especially in Texas where it is likely to assume an average road speed of up to 65 mph ... on gravel. If you set the Avoidance it will then only route you on Unpaved roads where there is no paved alternative.

Do not ask me how I found this out!

Edit: Just to add ... The 660 also operates on a "Learning Algorithm". This is a useless feature designed only to ensure that you do not arrive at a Rally finish in a timely manner. What it does is predict and offer routes based upon what it has learned about your driving speed on various classes of highway.

What this means to you is that if you just spent a month pootling around your home district, then it will base its routes on very modest driving speeds. In the above examples ... If you regularly ride the Interstate at or just below the posted speed limit, but ride other divided highways at or slightly above (not uncommon driving pattern), then it will assume you will make better time by taking the shorter route shown above.

If you have spent the previous seven days flying around a 48/10, then it will, the following Monday, have you arriving at work almost before you leave home. It cannot be turned off and it's a nightmare.

Best explanation I've read yet, thanks! I have a Zumo 665 and my husband inherited my old 660. We never could figure out why they could have the exact same route, pushed to each device by me after creating it in BaseCamp, yet they would try to route us differently. Frustrating, to say the least. On the bright side, we have learned to doubt the devices and not each other.

Shaping points sound like a great thing in general, but just imagine trying to do that over the course of planning in BaseCamp an 8,000+ mile trip. No way would I want to put shaping points along every single freaking business loop vs. highway occurrence. For a rally we're riding next week, I'll be turning off the auto recalculation and see how that goes. :0)

 

[Kimmie]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I have had issue with the 660 syncing to the Scala and loose audio during the trip randomly.
What I hadn't realised was that I hadn't done a software update on either device for "too long". So last week I have updated software, updated my maps on the 660 and repaired everything. Yesterday went for a ride and it seems that I no longer have my little motorcycle symbol on the 660 screen for a route just this blue arrow and the Scala didn't pair to the GPS.

Have fixed the pairing problem. You have to reset the Scala before trying to re-pair to the GPS - that problem solved.
Now to figure out the riding icon issue.

I don't as a rule use base camp to plan my trips and have a SS coming up next month. Will take on board all the above info (thanks again) and see what Mr Zumo says about the route on a test ride.