Gas Receipts

Uncle Zoom

Premier Member
#1
Anybody know what’s going on? During the last three to four months I’ve started to notice more and more that when I stop for fuel I can no longer get a receipt at the pump. Doesn’t seem to matter what brand I get or if I’m in the city or out in the boondocks, the gas pump has the unmitigated audacity to digitally tell me to, “See clerk for receipt.” Strange, that during a pandemic they want me to come in the store and wait in line behind the, “Give me a pack of cigarettes – no make that a carton, I’ll take fourteen lottery tickets, and here, let me give you the numbers for each ticket I want to play, I’ll also take this 48 ounce pomegranate slushy, two extra-large condoms and by the way, how’s Bubba doin’ after his boy backed the boat trailer over his leg” type of customers. After hearing six or seven conversations like this I feel kinda stupid just asking for a piece of paper to prove I bought a tank a gas, most of which has evaporated while I have been in here waiting my turn. Am I just going through some bad karma or are some of you also starting to notice a lack of receipts at the pump?
 
#2
I've had similar issues at times, but I noted this long before 2020/Covid. I've chalked it up to attendants not keeping the pump's paper re-stocked, depending on time of day, business, etc. There is one fuel stop near me that admits there never put paper in the pumps ... and they never have.
 

CVO James

Premier Member
#5
My wife completed her first in state SS and BB last month, almost half of the gas stations we stopped at we got the see clerk message. Some were small stations and some were big truck stops. I thought it was a good learning experience for her and made her get my receipt also so I didn’t have to go in.
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#7
I suspect it's a combination of things. Fewer people want receipts, especially the pay by phone crowd, and the economy + Covid means fewer people are traveling, so getting any impulse sales you can starts to add up. Selling gas is almost a loss leader operation when you consider profits vs costs of operation, overhead, taxes, etc. The real money is in the higher mark up items in the store. Also turn over at minimum wage places like gas stations is high. Actually having someone keep the pumps filled with receipt paper means someone has to give a damn enough to go do it. Nothing else requires a person to open the pump and do anything in terms of maintenance or selling gas until the inspector shows up or something breaks down.
 

CB650F

Premier Member
#8
Long ago, I worked at a gas station. The attendant(s) inside the store has to juggle a lot more than you think. They have to keep the restrooms clean, make sure nobody is stealing/damaging anything, take care of the cash register, answer any questions people might have, keep up with stocking the shelves/coolers, oh and make sure the pumps outside are working properly and have paper to print a receipt. The way they find out that a receipt printer is low on paper is by looking at the receipt itself. It gets red streaks on it when the paper gets low. Those streaks get bigger as the roll runs out. That is true for the rolls of paper in the pumps too. There isn't a warning or anything sent automatically from the pump to the attendant when the roll gets low. If nobody tells them that the pump is low on paper, they won't know. If they do get told about it, someone has to get a roll of paper, walk out there, physically open up the pump, remove the old roll along with any paper jams (which can get bad in an automatically fed pump printer), put the new roll in, manually feed some paper to make sure it feeds properly, close and lock the pump, then go back in the store and continue their daily duties. And all that assumes they have access to the key for the pump, and enough extra rolls of paper to put one out there, and aren't so busy that people keep pulling up to that pump, and have another attendant that can take care of the in store duties while they are replacing the paper roll, etc. If it's a small gas station, maintenance items like that are taken care of over night shift because that's the only time they can do it. Oh and they are paid abysmally low wages for the job they do. Ain't nobody in a hurry to mess with that nasty fuel pump. It's easier to just print a receipt for that 1 in 50 customer who actually wants a fuel receipt.

When you're not doing an IBA ride, how often do you actually care about that receipt? What do you do with them once you drive off? Mine are never looked at again until they get thrown away.
 

Marc11

Premier Member
#9
Long ago, I worked at a gas station. The attendant(s) inside the store has to juggle a lot more than you think. They have to keep the restrooms clean, make sure nobody is stealing/damaging anything, take care of the cash register, answer any questions people might have, keep up with stocking the shelves/coolers, oh and make sure the pumps outside are working properly and have paper to print a receipt. The way they find out that a receipt printer is low on paper is by looking at the receipt itself. It gets red streaks on it when the paper gets low. Those streaks get bigger as the roll runs out. That is true for the rolls of paper in the pumps too. There isn't a warning or anything sent automatically from the pump to the attendant when the roll gets low. If nobody tells them that the pump is low on paper, they won't know. If they do get told about it, someone has to get a roll of paper, walk out there, physically open up the pump, remove the old roll along with any paper jams (which can get bad in an automatically fed pump printer), put the new roll in, manually feed some paper to make sure it feeds properly, close and lock the pump, then go back in the store and continue their daily duties. And all that assumes they have access to the key for the pump, and enough extra rolls of paper to put one out there, and aren't so busy that people keep pulling up to that pump, and have another attendant that can take care of the in store duties while they are replacing the paper roll, etc. If it's a small gas station, maintenance items like that are taken care of over night shift because that's the only time they can do it. Oh and they are paid abysmally low wages for the job they do. Ain't nobody in a hurry to mess with that nasty fuel pump. It's easier to just print a receipt for that 1 in 50 customer who actually wants a fuel receipt.

When you're not doing an IBA ride, how often do you actually care about that receipt? What do you do with them once you drive off? Mine are never looked at again until they get thrown away.
Plenty of people using vehicles for business purposes require receipts.
 

CB650F

Premier Member
#10
Yep. I didn't say there were no people who required receipts. In fact, I even pointed out that some people do and that it's easier to just print them a receipt when requested than to try and stay on top of keeping paper in the pumps. We actually seem to agree with each other on that point.
 

MarkG

Premier Member
#11
$500 fine if there is no paper in the pumps in Arizona. I report every one of them to Arizona Weights and Measures. I don't patiently wait in line either. I interrupt and ask for the receipt. When somebody complains wait your turn it is pointed out I have already paid with a credit card nobody else has and I want my receipt. More often than not there are others just like me that also ask for receipts at the same time. What is really annoying is multiple employees standing around doing nothing, there is no excuse for the pumps to be out of paper. It is a ploy to get people inside the building to buy something.
 

Avi Azrieli

Premier Member
#13
QUESTION: Isn't it time for the IBA (and rally masters) to forgo receipts altogether?
Especially with the pandemic, which makes it risky to enter the store, but also in general, leaving your bike and gear unattended while you go inside, creating needless hardships for riders. Also, paper receipts are gradually disappearing, as more and more people move to paperless payment methods. The alternative is simple and, arguably, more reliable: Require riders to take two quick photos: One of the pump after filling and another of the odometer. Any smartphone or recent digital camera will have the location and time imbedded digitally in the photos, which will provide evidence to support the log entry. Thus, no need for paper receipt.
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#14
QUESTION: Isn't it time for the IBA (and rally masters) to forgo receipts altogether?
Especially with the pandemic, which makes it risky to enter the store, but also in general, leaving your bike and gear unattended while you go inside, creating needless hardships for riders. Also, paper receipts are gradually disappearing, as more and more people move to paperless payment methods. The alternative is simple and, arguably, more reliable: Require riders to take two quick photos: One of the pump after filling and another of the odometer. Any smartphone or recent digital camera will have the location and time imbedded digitally in the photos, which will provide evidence to support the log entry. Thus, no need for paper receipt.
You're quite humorous. You don't always have to go into the store to get a receipt. When you do, yes, it's more of a process these days. Helmet off and locked to the bike, mask on, likely gloves off, but not necessarily and the walk and talk. Leaving your gear... Pack better and secure your gear. Two photos that have no other correlation and could have been taken randomly doesn't work, imho. Your bike with the gas pump helps, but w/o a back up proving you actually purchased gas there, it's not proving anything really. When you rolled up there was a cost and gallon displayed. Bikes with fuel cells can hold 11+ gallons, so reasonably often the values displayed could be at bike levels.

One of the trials of photo documentation of odometers is digital odos that don't photograph well in some lighting situations. The other is sometimes having to take the gloves off to take the picture. With old school documentation I take nothing off at gas stops and am on my way very quickly. Digital stops take longer and are an annoyance.

Frankly, when you can send an automatic email of your gas receipt, at the time you get gas, to the IBA when doing a cert ride, Then and only Then will true paperless methods be possible. The current electronic format has it's issues, but works for simple rides best.

The burden is on US, not the IBA, to prove we did the ride in as clear a manner as possible so that the verifications teams can follow our breadcrumbs and see that we did the ride.
 

SteveAikens

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#15
"Streamlining" any part of the required process that has been part of certifications, making it easier for the rider, devalues the certifications of the five or six riders that followed the guidelines that have been in place for a little while.

In my humble opinion - any change that makes the ride documentation easier for riders - than it was for me 24 or 25 odd years ago is the wrong thing to do. Consider how much easier the rides are today, with the changes in motorcycling technology, comfort and reliability vs what it was like in the early days and you're already a huge step ahead in "streamlining" the process.
 

CB650F

Premier Member
#16
$500 fine if there is no paper in the pumps in Arizona. I report every one of them to Arizona Weights and Measures. I don't patiently wait in line either. I interrupt and ask for the receipt. When somebody complains wait your turn it is pointed out I have already paid with a credit card nobody else has and I want my receipt. More often than not there are others just like me that also ask for receipts at the same time. What is really annoying is multiple employees standing around doing nothing, there is no excuse for the pumps to be out of paper. It is a ploy to get people inside the building to buy something.
So you get pissed off about not having a receipt at the pump and take it out some poor minimum wage worker and the other patrons of the fuel station. And you admit that the kid working the register/till has other customers he/she is trying to take care of so can't physically change the roll in the pump. Seriously Mark? You'd have a shit fit if someone treated you that way.

Reporting them to the department of Weights and Measures is useless. At most, they will do a drive by and watch a few people get a receipt at the pump then go back to the office. AWM has better things to do than watch fuel pumps like a hawk and pounce as soon as one runs out of paper.

Assuming that it is a ploy to get people in the store to buy something, it's a ploy on the part of the management, not the poor guy at the register. He is just trying to make it through his shift and GTFO of that fuel station and back to his family and friends. He isn't paid enough to care, especially when people are barging in, cutting in front of the line, and demanding receipts. Is your time seriously so precious that you can't afford 2 minutes in the pursuit of kindness? Even on an IBA ride, 2 minutes shouldn't make or break you. If it does, you are cutting things way too close. Just ride the next leg at 77 mph instead of 75 and you'll more than make up those two minutes without the risk of speeding tickets or riding dangerously. Oh, is it your final fill up to stop the clock? That's okay, the time on the receipt is already set and you either made it or didn't. Getting a reprinted receipt won't change the time on the receipt.

"Streamlining" any part of the required process that has been part of certifications, making it easier for the rider, devalues the certifications of the five or six riders that followed the guidelines that have been in place for a little while.

In my humble opinion - any change that makes the ride documentation easier for riders - than it was for me 24 or 25 odd years ago is the wrong thing to do. Consider how much easier the rides are today, with the changes in motorcycling technology, comfort and reliability vs what it was like in the early days and you're already a huge step ahead in "streamlining" the process.
I'm completely on the other side of this coin. An organization that doesn't change in any way over 25 or more years is a dead organization. If you are reading this, you're doing it on a device that didn't exist 25 years ago through a form of communication that was still in its infancy. Should we not use the internet or GPS because some people did rides without them? Can we use modern bikes, or should we only use hard tail, carb'd, air cooled Harley's like real men? Does streamlining or using modern tools/bikes make old certs worth less? Hell no, it doesn't! That person still did what they did when they did with whatever bike and accessories they did it with. That person's cert still has exactly the same value it had the day it was issued. If anything, making things easier now devalues future certs because they are easier to get. I don't see how it can possibly have any impact on a cert that's already been issued. I bet the IBA will still accept the old methods of submission. Go ahead and snail mail them an exact duplicate of your paperwork from a cert in the 80s. I bet they will certify it again.

I'm all for making things more enjoyable and less tedious. The current process seems pretty good at that to me. Maybe there are ways to make it better. If we can make things better for those that follow in our footsteps, why the heck wouldn't we? That's how humanity grows. I want my kids, and yours, to have better lives than you and I had. I don't want them to have the same difficulties as me just because it would make my life worth less. (Not that it actually would, but you know what I'm saying.)
 

Kylearane

Premier Member
#17
This past year I have noticed more and more receipt problems. One thing I've learned to do is the scan the pumps as I approach to see if a receipt is hanging from the printer output. If so then that pump usually prints the receipt I need. That doesn't work at busy stations, but in the early/late hours or less busy stations it has worked well.
 

BigLew55

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#18
For inconsequential receipts (ones that are not start/end/corners or otherwise geographically/chronologically pertinent), I keep a small notepad. If the pump doesn't spit one out, I just write the details on the notepad and take the pic with the GPS in view. It fills in the blank for those reviewing it, and I also support every ride with a Spotwalla track from Bubbler or SPOT, so there is a bit of redundancy. If you've ridden to AK, you know you have to be creative sometimes.

If it is a start/end/corner or otherwise geographically/chronologically pertinent, I try to make sure it is computer generated, even if it means going inside, or going to a different business to make a different purchase.
 

Stephen!

Fly Guy
Premier Member
IBA Member
#19
For those advocating for strictly technology, keep in mind that "smart" devices are not very smart. They are very easily spoofed and "metadata" is extremely easy to manipulate. Can receipts be fabricated? Of course, but not nearly as easily as changing the data on a digital image or fooling a "smart" device into "thinking" it is in Moscow, Russia.

https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php?id=222845e9a31cce5ca5
 
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