IBA Canada?

#23
Unfortunately I haven't had time...work has been too busy for me to take the appropriate time off (wanted 3 consecutive days) so it looks like I will probably have to push the ride to next year...oh well, I guess more time to plan!
Fair enough I certainly understand being busy at work. Let me know when you do it next year and we will meet up for a short coffee.
 

JAVGuzzi

Premier Member
#24
Generally speaking, the IBA would like to see a 5% buffer in distance for cert rides, just to insure you don't come up short when it is verified.
I have heard this many times on this Forum. and I'm sure that's a great buffer to add to the minimum number of required miles. But I'd like to add I have done several ( Edit: 4 ) SS1K's where I have done 1,00X miles and have not had a problem getting them certified. Apparently, as long as you can prove with your documentation that you did the minimum number of miles, it's not a problem getting certified. I usually "plug-in" the addresses of my planned stops into both Google Maps and Streets & Trips to check the miles of my plan before I do the ride. G.M. & S&T usually agree with a few miles of each other, BTW. I think the IBA uses Google Maps, but I may be wrong on that.
 
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EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#25
@JAVGuzzi - The point of the buffer is simply to ensure you do get over 1000 miles corrected. Corrected being the number the IBA verification team comes up with. In most cases, if you can document the route you rode on one of the many mapping programs, you're probably good. But the IBA uses several different mapping programs, so cutting it too close risks erring on the miles and coming in under. The IBA wants you to succeed! Which is why they have the suggestion of the buffer.

To a degree, this is a hold over from pre-internet days when most riders were using paper maps and their odometers and we all should know that our odometers are not accurate. They are relatively accurate most of the time. Some are spot on, others may be 10% off. The buffer just made it much more likely that riders would cover enough miles.

You said "G.M. & S&T usually agree with a few miles of each other" Yes, as do many mapping programs. But it would suck if that "few miles" was in the wrong direction for your submitted ride. We all have our comfort zone for this. The first time you turn in a ride with a single digit buffer and blow it, you'll be kicking yourself for not riding another few miles. ;)

Simply put, riders new to IBA rides are better served by giving themselves a ~50 mile buffer, just in case. More experienced riders that have had multiple IBA certs approved are more likely to have their system down for ensuring they document the required miles for the cert.

Also worth mentioning is that the more complex the route, the more opportunity for short cuts and a rider missing or failing to document that they did not take a short cut. A strait out and back interstate ride doesn't have too much room for error. A loop ride with a lot of back roads and through several cities may have more chance of short cuts that the planner might not have noted, since they were focused on the route they chose.
 

rneal55555

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#26
It's been ages and technology moves on, but the below is from my/our first certified Ride. We rode together and all the receipts/witnesses were from the same places. They were submitted separately via snail mail as was the practice at the time. Which shows the verification teams at least at the time could come up with slightly different results. FWIW I think this was submitted as 2025 based on the GPS. As a side note one is recorded by the start date and mine by the finish date.

Russell C. Neal North Stonington, CT 06/16/07 Yamaha Venture 2,011
George W. xxxxxx Groton, CT 06/14/07 Honda VFR 2,022
 
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JAVGuzzi

Premier Member
#27
Eric V said " Also worth mentioning is that the more complex the route, the more opportunity for short cuts and a rider missing or failing to document that they did not take a short cut. A strait out and back interstate ride doesn't have too much room for error. A loop ride with a lot of back roads and through several cities may have more chance of short cuts that the planner might not have noted, since they were focused on the route they chose."

EricV : Not to be argumentative, but I think that's probably irrelevant since we are talking about a certified ride and not a rally. The IBA uses the addresses on the receipts when they determine the miles ridden when using a mapping program - they don't care if you went around in circles 100 times in a parking lot, for instance. The start & ending odometer readings aren't used for certification, but should pass the "smell test".

I think that's important to mention since new IBA Riders may think the IBA uses the start & stop odometer readings when determining the miles ridden.

In my original post I should have mentioned I keep track of my GPS trip meter reading during the ride, too. That gives me an accurate number during the ride. It always has agreed with G.M. & S&T at the end of the ride - or maybe it's the other way around.

Just a side note: I did a SS1K with Ward Blanchard (RIP) who set the record on that ride for the oldest person to do a SS1K. Ward was 89 y/o on that ride. It was the Yooper Madness SS1K ride. We started outside Lansing, MI went up to the U.P. and did a loop and then back to the starting location. He did it on his Can Am Spyder. At the end of the ride his Can Am trip meter read 1,008 miles , the same as on my GPS. We both had our rides certified.
 
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EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#28
@JAVGuzzi - I am at a loss here. You don't seem to understand the conversation. It's not about if you got certified or not. I never mentioned or implied rally riding.

The point of the buffer is simply to help ensure riders do ride enough miles. You don't have to ride more than 1000 miles to get a certified ride, and no one ever said you did. There also isn't really any reason to cut it super close in most cases either. You have plenty of time for most SS1K routes that anyone would plan, on most bikes. Even my Scooter SS1K ride had an extra ~60 miles or so, not because I felt I needed the miles, but because of where my stop point was for the end receipt.

The Verification teams will use the receipt locations to map someone's ride. What someone's odo read has little to do with the conversation. I've had bikes that the odo was perfectly correct too. That doesn't have anything to do with planning a cert ride. Nor does the IBA care if your odo is correct. That's not a threshold for getting a ride certified.

Not relevant? You didn't understand. I'll try to explain. If you plan a complex route that has more opportunities for short cuts, you have to ensure you document that you didn't take the shorter route. If someone misses the fact that there is a shorter route between two of their DBR locations than they actually rode, it will appear that they rode less miles than they are claiming. That means more work for the verification team. And the possibility of a denied cert. Regardless of what the odo readings were at start, finish or in-between.

How much leeway is given now with photos of odo/receipts is unknown to me. I've only used that method once. I didn't really care for it because of the pain in the butt of getting good photos with an electronic digital odo in varied light conditions.
 

JAVGuzzi

Premier Member
#29
EricV: Thanks for repeating half of what I said already about the IBA using receipt addresses and that the IBA doesn't care about the odometer readings, etc.

One thing I didn't mention yet was the importance of getting a receipt at all "corners" of a ride - me bad. I always do that religiously on my rides so the IBA doesn't suspect that I have taken a short-cut.

I certainly agree with you about the photos of receipts / odo readings. And that takes extra time, especially a factor on a BBG ride.

Maybe Greg Rice will like to add his 2-cents to this topic ? ;)
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#30
You continue to miss the point. You don't need help with your ride planning. The discussion about a buffer is not aimed at riders that have a great deal of experience doing cert rides. It is aimed at riders new to the IBA and it's processes. You have added nothing to this thread and continue to muddy the conversation. Telling us that you had rides certified with small amounts of miles over 1k is meaningless. The conversation was about planning the ride. Neither of us know how someone else will plan their ride. Suggesting that they can ignore the IBA's published suggestion of a buffer isn't helpful for someone planning their first IBA ride.
 

JAVGuzzi

Premier Member
#31
My comments were all about planning a successful ride:

1.) It's the Riders responsibility to prove he/she did at least the required number of miles based on a good receipts because that's what the IBA will use during the certification process.
2.) Use a mapping program to check the miles of your planned ride.
2.) A 5% buffer is not really required if #1 is met. #1 is the bottom line, not a 5% buffer. The 5% buffer is merely a friendly suggestion, not a requirement. I bet some new IBA Riders may think a 5% buffer is required when it's clearly not required.

IMO, I like to end a ride ASAP. No point that I can see in stretching a timed ride out doing extra miles. For one thing, at my age, I need all the sleep I can get. And it may prove unsafe and is a gas and money waster, too.

Of course, I'm not talking about doing the IBR - that's another topic that I have no experience with. But I have done a few certified rides.
 
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Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#32
The reason we suggest adding 3-5% to the calculated mileage is because lots of first-timers calculate a route that is 1,001 miles and end up being a few miles short after the verification team completes their review. One should be able to ride another 30 miles to be on the safe side.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 
#34
Fair enough I certainly understand being busy at work. Let me know when you do it next year and we will meet up for a short coffee.
Well...after having an extremely short riding season last year, I dare say THIS is the year I'm going to attempt the ride! Got new tires on the bike and am trying to ride as much as I can in preparation...I'm thinking of a June ride most likely, depending on how the weather pans out
 
#35
Well...after having an extremely short riding season last year, I dare say THIS is the year I'm going to attempt the ride! Got new tires on the bike and am trying to ride as much as I can in preparation...I'm thinking of a June ride most likely, depending on how the weather pans out
Well if I'm able I'll come and meet for a coffee when you come through ;).