Wanna route?

Enterprise

Premier Member
#1
Try this quick quiz...

Locations of all the planets in the Solar System Drive can be downloaded from here...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6s_Fj497vdeVVBOTmJGQ2pfdlE/view?usp=sharing

Your mission should you decide to accept it is to Start and Finish at the Dubbo Pluto and find the shortest route through all the planets and suns listed.

A dud route = Greater than 1350km
A virtual route = Between 1300km and 1350km
Meh just a route = Between 1250km and 1300km
not a bad route = Between 1225km and 1250km
a pretty good route = Between 1200km and 1225km
a mental route = Between 1175km and 1200km
OMG OMG OMG = Less than 1175km
 
#4
1244 km gives me not a bad route (courtesy of BaseCamp)

Pluto 1of5 D1 - Dubbo
Neptune 2of5 D2 - Dunedoo
Pluto 2of5 D2 - Birriwa
Neptune 3of5 D3 - Coolah
Pluto 3of5 D3 - Merriwa
Pluto 4of5 D4 - Tamworth
Neptune 4of5 D4 - Gunnedah
Pluto 5of5 D5 - Bellata
Neptune 5of5 D5 - Pilliga Rest Area
Uranus 5of5 D5 - Yamindbah Rest Area
Uranus 4of5 D4 - Goolhi Road
Saturn 3of3 D4-5 - Newell Hwy
Jupiter
Mars
Earth
Venus
Mercury
Sun
Saturn 1of3 D1-2 - Camkeena Rest Area
Saturn 2of3 D3 - Deringulla Bridge
Uranus 3of5 D3 - Ulinda
Uranus 2of5 D2 - New Mollyan
Uranus 1of5 D1 - Tooraweenah
Neptune 1of5 D1 - Gilgandra
Pluto 1of5 D1 - Dubbo
 

OX-34

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#9
1185km.

For fun I first used 'optimise' in BaseCamp. I don't usually use that function. 'Optimise' gave me 1370km or something...
 

Philmor

Premier Member
#10
I fiddled in BaseCamp for 45 mins and could only get a 1300+km route.:eek:

I then got out the pen and paper and noted the preferred order of bonus locations as I trekked along the BaseCamp route and then adjusted BaseCamp to match. This took about 15 mins extra but I ended up with a route of 1194 kms.

I then tweaked the "Pluto 2" and "Neptune 2" bonuses and achieved a planned route of exactly 1175 kms with a ride time of 14 hrs 32 mins plus stops. Did others get such a long ride time? – maybe I need to adjust my average speed settings in BaseCamp.:D

However when I got to the "Pluto 4" bonus at Tamworth I realised I had left my rally flag at the "Pluto 5" bonus at Bellata. :mad:
The 420+km return journey, albeit done in just over 3.5 hours, meant I missed the rally finish time deadline and I was DNF’d by a smiling Rally Master. :)

Thanks Enterprise, that was enjoyable.
 

Enterprise

Premier Member
#11
Thanks Enterprise, that was enjoyable.
I don't think I've ever had a routing session that hasn't been enjoyable Philmor, although I have had a few frustrating ones.

Did others get such a long ride time?
I think the long ride time is indicative that very very minor roads (maybe dirt) are in use. So doing a 10km stretch of country road that Basecamp might "classify" as something weird might be shown as taking 1 hr to do, when it actual fact it might be a road that you can do at 60kph say. So there will be a difference of about 54 minutes there. Doesn't take much to add a couple of hours to a route. So a very long time might be indicative in a real route to have a bit of a check to see what roads are being used.

Mapsource / Basecamp can only ever use what has been surveyed in the map data. So generally speaking selecting avoid unpaved roads doesn't mean necessarily the route isn't going to use dirt roads and vice versa as well, sometimes it's going to think something is unpaved when it is in fact sealed.

For general routing I usually have Basecamp set to Fastest Time and avoid unpaved roads. This tends to keep me on the bigger roads and less likely to end up somewhere that isn't preferable. I also have 3 Motorcycling Activity profiles one set at Fastest Time avoid unpaved roads, one set to shortest distance avoid unpaved roads and 1 set to only shortest distance. I duplicate the route twice without duplicating the waypoints and then run it against each of the profiles so I can see the differences, just in case I am missing anything.

When I upload to the GPS I always do a recalculation of the route in the GPS. I then compare the route in the GPS to that that Basecamp/Mapsource shows. One of the advantages there is a sanity check to ensure that all the waypoints have been brought across in the route. It wouldn't be the first time that I have transferred a route to the GPS to discover that it has dropped 1 or 2 waypoints from it. Apart from ensuring all the points are there in the route the other thing that I want to see is the route length. If the kms are the same then I normally leave it at that. If the difference between the route length is significant then I hunt down the difference and find where they deviate. I have also adjusted my average speeds in Basecamp / Mapsource to something that generally works everywhere so I do a quick check also that they are approximately the same times for the route. If there is a big difference then I'll might hunt that down as well.
 

Philmor

Premier Member
#12
John

Thanks for that information.

I will go back and check different sectors of my route to see where the slow speeds are located.

I admit I had never thought about setting up more than one motorcycling profile, but it looks to be worthwhile to allow one to compare distances and travel times to highlight any possible discrepancies in a route. Where time permits I will plug sectors of a route into Google Maps to see if the distance and times are similar to BaseCamp.

This all leads to some broader thoughts and questions on BaseCamp management.

  • What is the difference between a motorcycling profile and a driving profile? Is it merely to do with motorcycle off-road travel or is it more complicated than that?
  • How do different riders maintain a database of their waypoints?
o A separate folder not in BaseCamp but within their Computer Documents where they export a Waypoint’s GPX file to? They then import these as required back into BaseCamp.

o I keep all waypoints I have ever established in a "List" within BaseCamp that I call “Used Waypoints”. This allows me to quickly access them for a new route I may be planning. This list will include fuel stations, motels, important locations, etc. but not rally bonus location waypoints.

o The problem I run into with this is that when I download the actual route ridden from my GPS’s then a number of waypoints become duplicated so I end up with, Home, Home 1, Home 2, etc. and Jerilderie BP, Jerilderie BP 1, Jerilderie BP 2, etc.

o Do riders when they get home download into BaseCamp the routes actually ridden from their GPS?​
  • Before I load a new route into my GPS I will delete all existing routes, waypoints and most favourites from the GPS to reduce the clutter and the chance of further duplications.
  • When planning for a rally do any riders load the CSV file of waypoints into MS Excel and manipulate the data in Excel (change names, etc.) before creating a GPX file and transferring that into BaseCamp?
  • Do any riders just use Google maps or Google Earth for rally planning?


I would be interested to here other riders comments on the above items.

I know there is a USA based dedicated BaseCamp forum but I thought I would throw these questions up to our Aussie community first.
 

IBA-Tiger

Well-Known Member
#13
Philmor *(and others),
Re: .csv file - The file supplied for TAR24 contained all the data used for generating the TourBook, as a few people had asked for either more detail, or data in a different format, eg Lat & Long separated. For those with Excel/spreadsheet skills, combining and splitting data fields can be useful, and then utilising something like GPS Visualizer, .gpx files can be generated (given internet access).
I know of at least one former Rallier (not at TAR24) who did use Google Earth for Routing, thus the .kml/kmz file was also supplied.
You may also have noticed that the .gpx file supplied on the Flashdrive carried most if not all of the verbiage in the TourBook in the Notes tab for the Waypoints - just trying to be helpful!
A "Certain" Mobmaster mused as to whether it would be possible to ride the Roundup without carrying/using paper at all - thus the provision of a plethora of files on said Flashdrive.
Interested in opinions from the poor sods, sorry Ringers, who partook of TAR24.
 

Fatman

Well-Known Member
#14
1178km only clicking on the location bonuses, I didn't enter any waypoints.

Edited.. I thought I wasn't that good, upon rechecking I left out 1 location.. Back to the drawing board :mad:
 
Last edited:

OX-34

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#15
I did a 'control A' and 'create route from selected waypoints'.
Dragged Dubbo up to the start.
Added in the extra Dubbo waypoint to the end.
Hit 'optimise' for fun. That was a dud route.
Dragged 3 or four waypoints within the route list as they looked like bad decisions and hit 'recalculate'.
Maybe 10 mins total time.

Not the lowest distance as I can see better ones from Crappy and Fatman, but pretty good.

Philmor I have a bunch of different profiles: Motorcycling, IBA run, Centreline, LAMs, LAMs BBGold, Postie etc. All previous routes under a particular profile will be recalculated if you change the profile settings (maybe those old ones don't matter any more). Creating a new profile avoids that. Plus, I usually have a few routes just sitting around in virtual 'envelopes' ready to be opened at short notice, so I don't want them mucked up.
 

Enterprise

Premier Member
#16
  • What is the difference between a motorcycling profile and a driving profile? Is it merely to do with motorcycle off-road travel or is it more complicated than that?
I haven't played with a lot of the different profiles in basecamp so I can't confirm for sure but the concept is that different vehicle types should route or behave differently. In the map data that is surveyed by other companies e.g Whereis and then used by Garmin or other manufacturers there is much more information recorded and embedded in the map than just speed limits and streets etc.

Also surveyed are restrictions for example a weight limit on a road so if you were using a heavy vehicle profile it shouldn't route down that road. Or perhaps a restriction on a freeway might be, "bicycles prohibited" so a route for a bicycle should not go along that stretch of road. In a GPS you might even be able to select a vehicle type of emergency vehicle and then a route there is going to ignore certain things such as No Right turn restrictions etc. Problem is that laws are different world wide but that's the concept. Mapmakers and GPS manufacturers apply a kind of "skin" or transform file to map data and then generate a map for specific brands of GPS so each different type can read / understand the same underlying surveyed map data and then apply certain rules to it.

A good place to get some ideas about how mapping is done is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap . or for simpler mapping you could take a look at https://www.waze.com/ I have to say I really like Waze. I use the app on my iPhone and it really does a brilliant job in the city and built up areas. but get to some back roads in the country and it won't know they are there. Good thing is that if you come across a road that isn't there you can map it and then in a week or two it will become part of the navigable areas in the app.

Anyway back on topic, as I say I am not sure that Basecamp actually behaves this way with activity profiles, and since it can't read speed limit data from the map yet then I suspect not, but maybe that sort of stuff is coming.

  • How do different riders maintain a database of their waypoints?
I use mainly have used Mapsource but I am gradually bringing everything into Basecamp. So I am building a list of Points Of Interest. Which I can then use in different routes.

So I use List Folders and then Lists for each different type of POI. Thusly.

So a POI can be a member of multiple Lists so you can have the same (not duplicated) Waypoint as a member of the BP list and the 24h list for example.

Then each of these single waypoints / POIs can be a part of as many routes as you like.

[/IMG]

(yep I can see my Duplicated Kingswood POI there)

And so for an example of a POI that is in many routes for me...




So with POI's you can also use Garmins POI Edit program you can import gpx files in a folder structure to create your own "permanent" POI's in your GPS, where each folder represents a category. So then you don't go cluttering up your favourites in your gps.

o The problem I run into with this is that when I download the actual route ridden from my GPS’s then a number of waypoints become duplicated so I end up with, Home, Home 1, Home 2, etc. and Jerilderie BP, Jerilderie BP 1, Jerilderie BP 2, etc.​
I delete everything in the Favourites on the GPS before uploading a route and I don't use favourites to store anything permanently. I will create POIs using POI edit so I can have an "unlimited" number of my own waypoints in the GPS rather than just a few hundred stored in favourites.


o Do riders when they get home download into BaseCamp the routes actually ridden from their GPS?​
Yep I download the tracks periodically and either save them with the routes or seperately if I want to check on anything specific, see exactly what time I was at a particular place etc, analyse the ride in any detail.


  • When planning for a rally do any riders load the CSV file of waypoints into MS Excel and manipulate the data in Excel (change names, etc.) before creating a GPX file and transferring that into BaseCamp?
Yep.


  • Do any riders just use Google maps or Google Earth for rally planning?
I use Google maps only for sanity checks, IE checking that the route generated is the same and get an idea of the google maps timing and a general overview of where I am going. I find it much easier to look a google map to have a general idea about the whole ride. A far easier map to read than in Basecamp.
 

Vlad

Premier Member
#17
1179 on the second attempt 1185 on the first.
I created one way point , Yarragrin and an interesting run on the dirt.
 
#18
Staring at my original for a few days, this morning I had a light bulb moment.

1176 km - mental

Pluto 1of5 D1 - Dubbo
Neptune 2of5 D2 - Dunedoo
Pluto 2of5 D2 - Birriwa
Pluto 3of5 D3 - Merriwa
Neptune 3of5 D3 - Coolah
Uranus 3of5 D3 - Ulinda
Uranus 2of5 D2 - New Mollyan
Saturn 1of3 D1-2 - Camkeena Rest Area
Saturn 2of3 D3 - Deringulla Bridge
Saturn 3of3 D4-5 - Newell Hwy
Uranus 4of5 D4 - Goolhi Road
Neptune 4of5 D4 - Gunnedah
Pluto 4of5 D4 - Tamworth
Pluto 5of5 D5 - Bellata
Neptune 5of5 D5 - Pilliga Rest Area
Uranus 5of5 D5 - Yamindbah Rest Area
Jupiter
Mars
Earth
Venus
Mercury
Sun
Uranus 1of5 D1 - Tooraweenah
Neptune 1of5 D1 - Gilgandra
Pluto 1of5 D1 - Dubbo

All on sealed roads, but a time of nearly 16 hours (no - I didn't factor in stopped time to collect bonuses), but then again I tend to have my BaseCamp set up with very conservative average speeds.
 

OX-34

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#19
..........................

  • What is the difference between a motorcycling profile and a driving profile? Is it merely to do with motorcycle off-road travel or is it more complicated than that?
.........................
I think it was Howard (JustHoward) who once gave the tip about using the GPS (so BaseCamp, too) in "Truck" mode. The benefit appeared to be that approaching small and medium and maybe large towns, the GPS will take those 'heavy vehicle' alternate routes or any other way to help the 'truckie' avoid downtown traffic.

I've never tried that trick, but reading this thread has reminded me that I was going to give a crack one day.
 

TripleTreat

Well-Known Member
#20
Yo Enterprise! There are lots of nice fine details in your summaries above that have prompted me to explore BaseCamp a little further and get even more out of it - thanks.:)