Interstate End To End Series

kb1fch

Premier Member
#21
So, it certainly looks like you could do *either* a 50CC THW *or* a I-80 E2E GOLD.
I've been doing some preliminary planning on this, hoping to try it in the not too distant future, and while I'm not an expert, by my understanding of the nesting rules I don't see why you couldn't do both.

You have 50hrs to do the CC and 48 for the I-80E2E Gold so it would be possible to complete a 50CC THW without completing I-80 E2E Gold even if you followed I-80 the whole way. Obviously, you could also do an 50CC THW without the I-80 E2E by not staying on I-80.

The eastern end of I-80 is in Teaneck NJ, which is not on the Atlantic, so you could complete the I-80 E2E gold without satisfying the requirements of the 50CC.

Since neither guarantees completion of the other they should be nestable right? Am I'm missing something?
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#22
What's the point though? Getting two certs for one ride that's very similar to another? I understand someone wanting the basic SS1K cert while doing a BB1500 as well, different accomplishments and distances, though done during the same ride.

If you did the I-80 E2E Gold, the additional distance and effort to accomplish the 50CC Gold is non-existent. By the way, I'm not sure who started calling the ride The Hard Way, but it's actual name is just a 50CC Gold, no listing exists for a 50CC THW cert, near as I can tell from the IBA web site. San Fran to New York or any other two coastal cities as long as the mileage is 2900 or greater. LINK

The problem here is simple. If you ride a 50CC Gold along I-80, you have by default ridden an I-80 E2E. Yes, you could have chosen a different route for the 50CC Gold, but the point is you did not. You could have sandbagged the ride and done it in over 48 hours too. The 2 hour difference between the rides makes it confusing to some. Claiming both certs for the same ride just means you paid twice as much to document one single ride. Pick one, do that. Then if you want the other cert, do another ride and celebrate that ride with the second cert.

Remember a few things; The I-80 E2E route is 2903 miles. The 50CC Gold must be 2900 or greater miles. You're not required to get to the actual coast for a 50CC Quest or Gold ride, that's just a fun and memorable experience to include. If you rode a I-80 E2E, you could claim that exact ride as a 50CC Gold. It meets every requirement for the ride. Doing a 50CC Gold in 2 hours less than the maximum allowable time doesn't make it a different ride, IMHO.
 

kb1fch

Premier Member
#23
What's the point though?
One could ask that about any of this... In all seriousness, this seams to come up every time someone mentions nesting. I think the philosophical question of whether nesting is appropriate is a valid discussion, but it's different from the the question of whether a particular scenario is "legal" given the current guidelines. In this case I think you're right, philosophically, nesting these rides doesn't make a lot of sense, but I also believe that it would be allowable given the guidelines. Whether or not that should change is way above my pay grade. I was really asking the question to solidify my understanding of the those guidelines.

If you rode a I-80 E2E, you could claim that exact ride as a 50CC Gold. It meets every requirement for the ride.
I don't believe this is technically correct. While you don't have to get to the coast, you have to get to a coastal city: (Reference) "You may choose any two coast cities (obviously, one on the Atlantic Ocean and the other on the Pacific Ocean)". It doesn't make much sense otherwise does it? The I-80E2E doesn't have that requirement. Granted, NYC is only few miles further, and it would be silly not to do that, but it's not actually required for I-80E2E.
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#24
I don't believe this is technically correct. While you don't have to get to the coast, you have to get to a coastal city: (Reference) "You may choose any two coast cities (obviously, one on the Atlantic Ocean and the other on the Pacific Ocean)". It doesn't make much sense otherwise does it? The I-80E2E doesn't have that requirement. Granted, NYC is only few miles further, and it would be silly not to do that, but it's not actually required for I-80E2E.
You're splitting hairs. The moment you cross the Hudson river you're in NYC, which is a coastal city. You're not getting an end receipt at the I-80/I-95 junction. Sure, you could get a receipt in Teaneck itself, ~4 miles short of a coastal city.

@Ira will have to chime in with an official word on if the IBA will allow nesting a I-80 E2E and a 50CC Gold. My personal opinion, for the reasons stated, is no, but I'm not an official IBA staff member.

Ask yourself what you want the cert to represent to you? IMHO, it's the same ride with a different name. So if allowed, you get two certs for the same ride. That's not in the spirit of nesting. The point in nesting is to allow riders to claim a larger ride that included a smaller ride, both rides unique and offering their own challenges.
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#25
The general issue of ride nesting has and will go on and on between the one ride, one cert folks and those who are into certificate collecting. :) So let's just review the basic issue.

The questions to ask are:

Can one complete a 50cc without necessarily completing an I-80 E2E?

Can one complete an I-80 E2E without necessarily completing a 50cc?

The answer to the first question is yes, by just selecting a route other than I-80.

If the answer to the second question is also yes, then one could apply for both certificates.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#26
To thread the needle...

The point blank question is: Can one claim a 50cc ride on I-80 as an I-80 E2E?

And if so, perhaps the IBA needs to re-name the 50cc Gold as the I-80 E2E and make the hours uniform.
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#27
Considering that the 50cc GOLD is between any two coastal cities at least 2,900 miles apart, that probably wouldn't work.

Nesting can get a little sticky when one is mixing rides just based on time and distance (e.g., the 50cc) and rides based on specific locations (e.g., I-80E2E).

Ira