Ride Around Virginia
- Thread starter AirbusFlieger
- Start date
Not in my opinion. The spirit of the ride is time and distance - it's point to point.
There are rides that ARE "ride around town" rides but they're monitored and verified. For example, Eric Page and I sat at a gas station in Lubbock, Tx and verified each lap of Bill Norris' "Ride around Lubbock". He did his miles on a Kawasaki Vulcan [500cc's] without leaving the city. No small feat for that bike or the rider.
It's pretty easy to simply move on to a different location to stop to fool around just adding miles locally.
Again, all just my opinion.
There are rides that ARE "ride around town" rides but they're monitored and verified. For example, Eric Page and I sat at a gas station in Lubbock, Tx and verified each lap of Bill Norris' "Ride around Lubbock". He did his miles on a Kawasaki Vulcan [500cc's] without leaving the city. No small feat for that bike or the rider.
It's pretty easy to simply move on to a different location to stop to fool around just adding miles locally.
Again, all just my opinion.
I'm adjusting my route to pad the miles. I am going for a SS1000 along with the Lap of VA
The lap of VA I planned initially registers from 995-1040 depending on the mapping app.
I was trying to keep a nice pretty outline of the state. In the northern neck area of VA, there are several large rivers that drain into the Chesapeake.
There are three mandatory cities, Alexandria VA, Tappahannock, VA, and Virginia Beach VA that the rivers affect. There are limited spots to cross these.
Staying within the VA state line forces a route that makes that eastern leg of the triangle to stay inland, cutting down the miles.
So, I added a town towards the northern tip of the state, Perceville, VA to add 40 miles to the route putting me solidly above 1000.
The lap of VA I planned initially registers from 995-1040 depending on the mapping app.
I was trying to keep a nice pretty outline of the state. In the northern neck area of VA, there are several large rivers that drain into the Chesapeake.
There are three mandatory cities, Alexandria VA, Tappahannock, VA, and Virginia Beach VA that the rivers affect. There are limited spots to cross these.
Staying within the VA state line forces a route that makes that eastern leg of the triangle to stay inland, cutting down the miles.
So, I added a town towards the northern tip of the state, Perceville, VA to add 40 miles to the route putting me solidly above 1000.
Thank you,
There are mandatory DBR cities by the IBA on the "Laps of" state rides.
Which is why the routing is challenging getting around three big rivers with limited bridges from the DC area to Virginia Beach. GPS routing on different platforms route going over the Potomac into MD to get to Va Beach but the ride needs to stay in VA, so that forces the route "inward" to the west, making the mileage shorter, and fouling up the shape of the ride tracing the VA border.
My goal is to trace the shape of the state and hit a SS1000. I think I have it licked, and I'll post it here on this thread after I triple check it.
AF
There are mandatory DBR cities by the IBA on the "Laps of" state rides.
Which is why the routing is challenging getting around three big rivers with limited bridges from the DC area to Virginia Beach. GPS routing on different platforms route going over the Potomac into MD to get to Va Beach but the ride needs to stay in VA, so that forces the route "inward" to the west, making the mileage shorter, and fouling up the shape of the ride tracing the VA border.
My goal is to trace the shape of the state and hit a SS1000. I think I have it licked, and I'll post it here on this thread after I triple check it.
AF
Helpful hints:
Odometers are notoriously wrong. We do not use yours to calculate your official mileage.
We recommend you plan a route that is at least 2-3% longer than the calculated distance to be on the safe side.
It is up to you to demonstrate you rode the ride you claim by submitting sufficient documentation to do so. If you plan, for example to ride around in circles to lengthen your route, that is fine as long as you document it.
Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
Odometers are notoriously wrong. We do not use yours to calculate your official mileage.
We recommend you plan a route that is at least 2-3% longer than the calculated distance to be on the safe side.
It is up to you to demonstrate you rode the ride you claim by submitting sufficient documentation to do so. If you plan, for example to ride around in circles to lengthen your route, that is fine as long as you document it.
Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
I’m looking a Spot Trace a Cabela’s has in stock.
Any thoughts on that device?
They have Spot X also, but this is my first IBA ride, so not sure if I should cry once and sell the unit if I don’t actually like LDR or cry twice and get the cheaper unit and sell it for a Spot X if I like LDR riding.
Either way, I’m finishing the ride and will track it with one of these.
It’s a matter of me not knowing if I’m going to fall in love with it or if reality and my 56 yo body slap me in the face and it’s the only one I do.
As long as the bike holds up, I’m finishing no matter what. So I want to track it.
Any thoughts on that device?
They have Spot X also, but this is my first IBA ride, so not sure if I should cry once and sell the unit if I don’t actually like LDR or cry twice and get the cheaper unit and sell it for a Spot X if I like LDR riding.
Either way, I’m finishing the ride and will track it with one of these.
It’s a matter of me not knowing if I’m going to fall in love with it or if reality and my 56 yo body slap me in the face and it’s the only one I do.
As long as the bike holds up, I’m finishing no matter what. So I want to track it.
Don't know that device, I have a Spot Gen3 myself, which gives a lot of functionality if you end up in a ditch miles from nowhere......
It may be considered expensive by some, but if you do big miles and in lots of different places, then the option of not relying on mobile phone signals for help is invaluable! What price for being rescued when you may otherwise never be found!
It may be considered expensive by some, but if you do big miles and in lots of different places, then the option of not relying on mobile phone signals for help is invaluable! What price for being rescued when you may otherwise never be found!
get a used spot gen 3 or 4 off ebay. less crying if you don't like it. either would work great connected to spotwalla and using bubbler on your phone for inserting pictures in the track. it was just a little difficult for me at first, but once set up, it's easy to do and helps with verification submissions.
there should be a few threads on here that have good conversation about the details of doing it.
there should be a few threads on here that have good conversation about the details of doing it.
They can/do use your Spotwalla track, but that can fail. On one of my rides earlier this year, something happened to Spotwalla and it stopped taking data. I arrived home and immediately called to see if I needed to complete the ride again. It was a themed ride that is a subset of a bigger certification that had to be started/ended on a specific date and Spotwalla lost part of my rides data. I still document the old fashion way and had the DBR's and the Odo photos to document the ride. The Certifiers can use the actual address on the DBR's to recreate the route. The odometer in the photo of the DBR is to mostly prove that you did the ride on your motorcycle and they can very easily compute your odometers error if they wanted to from those photos. I have put on larger tires to correct the speedometer, which in turn made the odometer read fewer miles than actually ridden without problems. I also take a photo of the GPS's Trip Computer just in case. It was confirmed later in the day that Spotwalla hi-cc-uped some of my data.
You can only certify one of these as they are both considered a SS and you can't nest rides with the same requirements. i.e you can't nest a Saddle Sore and a Bun Burner Gold because they both have to be completed in the same amount of allotted time and you can't do one with doing the other. However you can nest a SS within a BB or BB Silver because those rides allow for 36 and 30 hours respectfully and can be competed without riding 1000 miles in 24 hours. You should be able to nest a SS in some of the Ride Arounds or Laps of if they allot more than 24 hours to complete.
The best advice I ever received, I got from a multiple IBR finisher and Rally Master and It was on routing. I use it to this day. He told me to plan my route, to include all the exact places I plan on getting a DBR (Gas Station, ATM, etc). Normally routing is from the center of a town/city to the center of the next town/city which is normally not an issue. However, If you have a big town/cities on a corner of your route, you can easily cut mileage by skirting around them and end up being short on mileage. This is why the address is so important on the DBR's and to get one on each corner or turn of your route. He also advised me that once I have my initial route to look at the mileage. If it is less than 1020-1030 miles, he told me to then select walking as my mode of travel since this is usually the shortest distance between the locations. if that is also over 1K miles, you should be good to go.
You can only certify one of these as they are both considered a SS and you can't nest rides with the same requirements. i.e you can't nest a Saddle Sore and a Bun Burner Gold because they both have to be completed in the same amount of allotted time and you can't do one with doing the other. However you can nest a SS within a BB or BB Silver because those rides allow for 36 and 30 hours respectfully and can be competed without riding 1000 miles in 24 hours. You should be able to nest a SS in some of the Ride Arounds or Laps of if they allot more than 24 hours to complete.
The best advice I ever received, I got from a multiple IBR finisher and Rally Master and It was on routing. I use it to this day. He told me to plan my route, to include all the exact places I plan on getting a DBR (Gas Station, ATM, etc). Normally routing is from the center of a town/city to the center of the next town/city which is normally not an issue. However, If you have a big town/cities on a corner of your route, you can easily cut mileage by skirting around them and end up being short on mileage. This is why the address is so important on the DBR's and to get one on each corner or turn of your route. He also advised me that once I have my initial route to look at the mileage. If it is less than 1020-1030 miles, he told me to then select walking as my mode of travel since this is usually the shortest distance between the locations. if that is also over 1K miles, you should be good to go.
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This is what I found (bold added by me):
https://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/instate/index.html
"In-State rides are motorcycle rides that are TOTALLY within the borders of a single state. You may take any route you like -- but remember you may not leave the state except for safety reasons. If you leave the state you must re-enter the state at the same point you left it. Any of the traditional rides (SaddleSore 1000, Bun Burner 1500, Bun Burner Gold) can be "in-state" rides, but you must closely follow the requirements of those specific rides.
There are many more challenging in-state rides that require you to travel through specific cities. These may be named "Ride Around" or "Lap of" rides (e.g. Ride Around Virginia; Lap of Florida). Remember you may not leave the state except for safety reasons -- and if you do leave the state, you must re-enter it at the same point you left it."
My ride is a Ride Around Virginia. An In-State themed ride with the above verbiage. The mileage is very close on just using the 9 city DBR's, so I added a city in towards the northern tip of the state to add 40 miles and keep tracing the states shape instead of an out-and-back detour or other circling around.
Re tracking:
I will be tracking via a Spot X and an iPhone with SW Tracker on Spotwalla, and Gaia on my iPhone which has it's own track recording. Not sure if Gaia's track recording would do big distances or tolerate start/stop on the same recording. I'll look at that tomorrow.
It follows to have backup for the devices, very interesting to see your point of failure for tracking was the Spotwalla website!!
Re planning: That is exactly what I did; The ride specifies cities to obtain DBR's from. So of course my initial planning was merely naming the city in Google maps. Then I realized I needed DBR from these places. Knowing the DC metro area is a mess, and so is Newport News, Norfolk, Virginia Beach area I wanted to get a specific address I could enter and exit off the road/interstate easily. I found gas stations that were open, clean and nice looking. They were also technically in the city specified by IBA, but right inside the city limit at a convenient (efficient) on/off point.
Great planning for an efficient Ride Around Virginia, but two things: The shape was funny looking, and, the mileage was in the low 900's. My quest for efficiency lopped off nearly 100 miles.
I modified a couple specific gas stations to hit to preserve the outline shape, and added a city to boost mileage.
When I'm satisfied with the route, I'll post it up.
I love the "walk" mode idea, thank you!
Thank you for the reply.
https://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/instate/index.html
"In-State rides are motorcycle rides that are TOTALLY within the borders of a single state. You may take any route you like -- but remember you may not leave the state except for safety reasons. If you leave the state you must re-enter the state at the same point you left it. Any of the traditional rides (SaddleSore 1000, Bun Burner 1500, Bun Burner Gold) can be "in-state" rides, but you must closely follow the requirements of those specific rides.
There are many more challenging in-state rides that require you to travel through specific cities. These may be named "Ride Around" or "Lap of" rides (e.g. Ride Around Virginia; Lap of Florida). Remember you may not leave the state except for safety reasons -- and if you do leave the state, you must re-enter it at the same point you left it."
My ride is a Ride Around Virginia. An In-State themed ride with the above verbiage. The mileage is very close on just using the 9 city DBR's, so I added a city in towards the northern tip of the state to add 40 miles and keep tracing the states shape instead of an out-and-back detour or other circling around.
Re tracking:
I will be tracking via a Spot X and an iPhone with SW Tracker on Spotwalla, and Gaia on my iPhone which has it's own track recording. Not sure if Gaia's track recording would do big distances or tolerate start/stop on the same recording. I'll look at that tomorrow.
It follows to have backup for the devices, very interesting to see your point of failure for tracking was the Spotwalla website!!
Re planning: That is exactly what I did; The ride specifies cities to obtain DBR's from. So of course my initial planning was merely naming the city in Google maps. Then I realized I needed DBR from these places. Knowing the DC metro area is a mess, and so is Newport News, Norfolk, Virginia Beach area I wanted to get a specific address I could enter and exit off the road/interstate easily. I found gas stations that were open, clean and nice looking. They were also technically in the city specified by IBA, but right inside the city limit at a convenient (efficient) on/off point.
Great planning for an efficient Ride Around Virginia, but two things: The shape was funny looking, and, the mileage was in the low 900's. My quest for efficiency lopped off nearly 100 miles.
I modified a couple specific gas stations to hit to preserve the outline shape, and added a city to boost mileage.
When I'm satisfied with the route, I'll post it up.
I love the "walk" mode idea, thank you!
Thank you for the reply.
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Well this is turning into a AirbusFliegers Ride Around Virginia thread... so here is a bit of info and the thread title edited.
Bike: 2003 Harley-Davidson FXSTDi Deuce. I've changed all the fluids, adjusted the clutch, adjusted the primary chain. Next is brake flush front and rear, pads front and rear, fork oil change (if the fork springs I ordered arrive in time I'll install them), drive belt tension, steering head bearing check and grease. New tires were mounted two months ago. Bike is stock, including the exhaust
Gear: Motoport mesh jacket and pants with GoreTex liners, deerskin ropers, Nolan helmet, Combat Lite boots by Sidi, a techy material skivvies and socks, Merino wool base layers (keep in bag) and hydration backpack.
On bike: Spot X, iPhone in a QuadLock for navigating, paper maps and printed line-item route.
Me: mid-50's, former crayon eater Marine military aircraft mechanic on Phantom J79's and Hornet GE F404's, now captain on the baby Airbus for a legacy airline. I'm in pretty good shape 5'9", 165lbs, 32" waist. Perfect BP and decent resting hear rate. All bloodwork is perfect. No meds. I watch what I eat and exercise at least twice a week. I'm very active outdoors. Kayaking, skiing, hiking, motorcycles all of these except skiing all my life.
I'm so thankful to riders that have complete IBA rides an all manor of machines. It inspired me to get off my duff and just do it. I've been spending months on youtube at night "planning" and evaluating motorcycles to be the "perfect" one for my LDR. Time to get into action.
I'm going to run what I brung, and take it from there.
Bike: 2003 Harley-Davidson FXSTDi Deuce. I've changed all the fluids, adjusted the clutch, adjusted the primary chain. Next is brake flush front and rear, pads front and rear, fork oil change (if the fork springs I ordered arrive in time I'll install them), drive belt tension, steering head bearing check and grease. New tires were mounted two months ago. Bike is stock, including the exhaust
Gear: Motoport mesh jacket and pants with GoreTex liners, deerskin ropers, Nolan helmet, Combat Lite boots by Sidi, a techy material skivvies and socks, Merino wool base layers (keep in bag) and hydration backpack.
On bike: Spot X, iPhone in a QuadLock for navigating, paper maps and printed line-item route.
Me: mid-50's, former crayon eater Marine military aircraft mechanic on Phantom J79's and Hornet GE F404's, now captain on the baby Airbus for a legacy airline. I'm in pretty good shape 5'9", 165lbs, 32" waist. Perfect BP and decent resting hear rate. All bloodwork is perfect. No meds. I watch what I eat and exercise at least twice a week. I'm very active outdoors. Kayaking, skiing, hiking, motorcycles all of these except skiing all my life.
I'm so thankful to riders that have complete IBA rides an all manor of machines. It inspired me to get off my duff and just do it. I've been spending months on youtube at night "planning" and evaluating motorcycles to be the "perfect" one for my LDR. Time to get into action.
I'm going to run what I brung, and take it from there.
Thank you very much.
I'll be using a Spot X with Spotwalla and an iPhone running a track recording app as a backup.
The Ride Around Virginia has specific DBR cities which I will document.
Good to note on the circling. It seems ridiculous, but at the end of 18 hours in the saddle if a rider needs a few more miles in the bank a quick out and back or circle around the last city is easier than getting off the bike and doing more route planning.
My route plan definitely has the VA shape, and of course hits all the required cities.
I'll be using a Spot X with Spotwalla and an iPhone running a track recording app as a backup.
The Ride Around Virginia has specific DBR cities which I will document.
Good to note on the circling. It seems ridiculous, but at the end of 18 hours in the saddle if a rider needs a few more miles in the bank a quick out and back or circle around the last city is easier than getting off the bike and doing more route planning.
My route plan definitely has the VA shape, and of course hits all the required cities.
On the IBA's In-State Ride Awards Program page, they define both the "Ride Around" and "Lap of" rides as a "Circuit Ride" rather than an "In-State" ride.
If you look in the Ride Database at both the "Ride Around" and the "In-State" ride listings for VA, you will see that none of the "Ride Around" folk are listed in the "In-State" listing.
The requirements for the different levels of the In-State Ride Awards are as follows:
In-State Bronze
Five In-State rides. No more than two rides in any one state.
In-State Silver
Ten In-State rides OR Five different Circuit Rides (no more than two rides in any one state).
In-State Gold
Fifteen In-State rides, including two Advanced Rides OR Twelve In-State rides, including two Advanced Rides AND five Circuit Rides (no more than two rides in any one state).
I've done several "In-State" and three "Ride Around" rides this past year and the "In-State" rides were a variety of your everyday SS, BB, BBS and even a BBG. The "Ride Around"'s were no joke. Two of them I completed with only two minutes to spare for their Gold level award.
If you look in the Ride Database at both the "Ride Around" and the "In-State" ride listings for VA, you will see that none of the "Ride Around" folk are listed in the "In-State" listing.
The requirements for the different levels of the In-State Ride Awards are as follows:
In-State Bronze
Five In-State rides. No more than two rides in any one state.
In-State Silver
Ten In-State rides OR Five different Circuit Rides (no more than two rides in any one state).
In-State Gold
Fifteen In-State rides, including two Advanced Rides OR Twelve In-State rides, including two Advanced Rides AND five Circuit Rides (no more than two rides in any one state).
I've done several "In-State" and three "Ride Around" rides this past year and the "In-State" rides were a variety of your everyday SS, BB, BBS and even a BBG. The "Ride Around"'s were no joke. Two of them I completed with only two minutes to spare for their Gold level award.
I have done the Ride around Virginia 5 times and have the route down by memory.
A couple key factors. I start deep inside Virginia Beach almost at oceanfront for the mileage and then the Hampton roads tunnel and up route 17 to Tappahannock and 17 to Fredericksburg. 95 to a 7-11 deep inside Alexandria and then head west on I-66 to I-81 north to Winchester last exit 323 at DBR for fuel at a Flying J.
South on 81 to exit 5 a Sheetz DBR then work my way across Virginia on 58 back to Virginia Beach and the same Wawa at First Colonial and that gives me at least 1020 miles.
58 is slow going across. Whole rout has taken me anywhere from 17 to 20 hours.
Also did an In State Santa Sore 1000 but not as a lap of. Just interstate all in Virginia and had 1011 miles.
Reach out to me if you want to discuss.
Watch for deer. You will see lots of them at all times of day.
A couple key factors. I start deep inside Virginia Beach almost at oceanfront for the mileage and then the Hampton roads tunnel and up route 17 to Tappahannock and 17 to Fredericksburg. 95 to a 7-11 deep inside Alexandria and then head west on I-66 to I-81 north to Winchester last exit 323 at DBR for fuel at a Flying J.
South on 81 to exit 5 a Sheetz DBR then work my way across Virginia on 58 back to Virginia Beach and the same Wawa at First Colonial and that gives me at least 1020 miles.
58 is slow going across. Whole rout has taken me anywhere from 17 to 20 hours.
Also did an In State Santa Sore 1000 but not as a lap of. Just interstate all in Virginia and had 1011 miles.
Reach out to me if you want to discuss.
Watch for deer. You will see lots of them at all times of day.
@Russ Black & @mkao1248 have given sound advice. Ira is definitive. Your ODO is not used to calculate your miles, mapping software is. If Google maps shows your route, (using exact DBR locations), as over 1000 miles, you're most likely good. Still, there are proven reasons to have that 2-3% buffer, as Ira suggested. You don't need the Spot, and don't rely upon it to document your ride. Your job is to make it as simple and obvious that you did the ride you are claiming. The verification teams are not there trying to deny your ride, they and the IBA want you to succeed, but they can only use the documentation you give them.
If you need a few more miles at the end, sure, an out and back works, you're still on the clock and you still have to document that you did those miles with DBRs, not just your odo. You should have your entire ride planned out before you leave and know exactly how many miles it maps out to. So there really are only a few situations where you might fall short. Road closures/bypasses or you took a wrong turn somewhere.
Yes, the Ride around VA has specific cities you must get receipts in. As has been said before, and can't be stressed enough, you MUST document any corner on your route required to prove you took the route you indicate with a DBR. If there is a shorter way, that's how the mapping software will indicate your path, and that's the mileage you'll be assigned for the ride. Remember, the DBR can be a computer generated receipt for anything, it doesn't need to be fuel. As long as it has the required info on it, it counts.
The verification team will not look at your spot track or your odo numbers first. They will plug in your DBR locations, from the info on the receipts, and plot your route that way. If that number is good, and you met the requirements for the Ride around VA ride cities, their job is done. Make it easy for them. That should be all they need to do on a simple ride like this. If they have to go look at your spot link or start working to determine why your initial DBR calculated route is short of 1000 miles, you're slowing down the entire process and making more work for them.
Your physical condition has little to do with the ability to ride long distances. If this is the first time you've ridden 1000 miles, hopefully you have done other rides of 600-800 miles before and have some understanding of the dynamic involved.
Understand that while the Ride Around VA can be considered an In State Ride, you're only getting one certificate for that one ride. This is not the same as nesting rides. If you meet the requirements for the In State ride for VA, then your Ride Around VA will be listed towards your In State rides. As mentioned, you can't claim an In State SS1K ride and a Ride Around VA ride as two separate rides, it's essentially just the same ride, you had to do 1000 miles for the Ride Around VA ride, arguably the more difficult one, in order to do the SS1K ride inside VA.
If you need a few more miles at the end, sure, an out and back works, you're still on the clock and you still have to document that you did those miles with DBRs, not just your odo. You should have your entire ride planned out before you leave and know exactly how many miles it maps out to. So there really are only a few situations where you might fall short. Road closures/bypasses or you took a wrong turn somewhere.
Yes, the Ride around VA has specific cities you must get receipts in. As has been said before, and can't be stressed enough, you MUST document any corner on your route required to prove you took the route you indicate with a DBR. If there is a shorter way, that's how the mapping software will indicate your path, and that's the mileage you'll be assigned for the ride. Remember, the DBR can be a computer generated receipt for anything, it doesn't need to be fuel. As long as it has the required info on it, it counts.
The verification team will not look at your spot track or your odo numbers first. They will plug in your DBR locations, from the info on the receipts, and plot your route that way. If that number is good, and you met the requirements for the Ride around VA ride cities, their job is done. Make it easy for them. That should be all they need to do on a simple ride like this. If they have to go look at your spot link or start working to determine why your initial DBR calculated route is short of 1000 miles, you're slowing down the entire process and making more work for them.
Your physical condition has little to do with the ability to ride long distances. If this is the first time you've ridden 1000 miles, hopefully you have done other rides of 600-800 miles before and have some understanding of the dynamic involved.
Understand that while the Ride Around VA can be considered an In State Ride, you're only getting one certificate for that one ride. This is not the same as nesting rides. If you meet the requirements for the In State ride for VA, then your Ride Around VA will be listed towards your In State rides. As mentioned, you can't claim an In State SS1K ride and a Ride Around VA ride as two separate rides, it's essentially just the same ride, you had to do 1000 miles for the Ride Around VA ride, arguably the more difficult one, in order to do the SS1K ride inside VA.
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Here is a way that you can earn both the Ride Around and the In-State on the same ride. Make your In-State ride a Bun Burner and "Nest" the Ride Around. You start your Bun Burner near your home, drive to Virginia Beach (or any other required city) via a 250 mile route, ride the Ride Around and then return home using the same 250 mile route. That should give you enough mileage for the BB and not waste the mileage going to/from the start/end point of the Ride Around. The only drawback is you can only use one of them towards the In-State Bronze. Silver and Gold awards. Both rides (BB and Ride Around) must be able to submitted independently even though in actuality they are submitted together. The nested ride will be italicized in the Ride Database.
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I did the ride around VA. It is possible to hit the required stops and come in under 1000 miles. However, as you know, you need to be over 1000 miles. Easiest way to get the required miles is to ride a bit deeper into Virginia Beach and/or the SW corner of the state. Simply map out gas stations farther into those locations so that you have a comfortable margin of error over 1000 miles.