Tire Repair for TUBE tires (not tubeless)

Cmfpatrick

Cmfpatrick

New Member
The other post about a tire plug kit got me thinking, does anyone here have a bike with tires that have inner tubes? If so, what do you do about plugging a flat?

My wife sometimes joins me (K1600GTL) on long trips on her R-18, which has tubes. It's a heavy bike. To repair a flat would require a jack of some kind, and all the tools to get the tire off and a new tube in. I have a flat repair kit for my tubeless tires, but I've begun to wonder what we'd do if she ever got a flat (short of calling for a tow, or converting her bike to tubeless).
 
I have a DRZ because my buddy kept convincing me my FJR was a dirt bike, to predictable results. Getting together a kit to fix a flat roadside underscored for me how _convenient_ tubeless tires are.

When I was married, and my wife's bike had tubes, but we were sticking to roads, I just had AAA RV+ tow insurance to summon a flatbed to wherever we were, and then I'd happily pay the dealer for that. It's really probably the best answer for a R-18.

For the DRZ, since we're out in the woods, I'm carrying the following kit.

Endurostar trail stand: https://www.endurostar.com/ lets you get either tire up using the kickstand as the pivot
This might be a little small for your application, but it only needs to hold 1/3 the weight of the bike

A pair of the tusk tire spoons of the appropriate size for your axle nuts
One spare tire iron in case I have a third hand
Motion Pro T6 Trail Bead Buddy in case I don't
Pro-buds comes in single-use packets: https://pro-buds.co/collections/tire-changing-paste-pro-buds-soap-lube/products/otho-packet
Red rags for various purposes including stuffing in your axle hole, and a tyvek mailer to change on (which also helps wrap tools)
Gloves and shop-towel-size wipes to have a fighting chance of wanting to put gloves on afterwards
Some flavor of air, I carry a dynaplug inflator, but I have a battery powered one in the car which will still use a 12v plug for backup in a pinch
Biggie pack of regular patches + scuffer
Extra tubes of rubber cement
Pliers + Wrench for valve stem nut + screwdriver for brake pads
(I added this kit: https://cruztools.com/product/speedkit-for-off-road-motorcycles-utv-atv/)
Valve tool + extra valves
Strap for the front brake
Spare heavy duty tube in the larger of the two tire sizes, packed with generous talc in vacuum bag (more to contain the mess than anything)

All of this except the tube and inflator fits in a manual canister strapped to the bike https://www.agrisupply.com/manual-canister-large-plain/p/109319/

My plan of action is get the wheel off, unmount one side, try to patch just by pulling the tube through
_When_ I puncture that tube in the process of remounting it, I can switch to the spare tube, and stuff the big tube in the little tire for the low-speed trip out of the woods.
_When_ I puncture that tube, I have a buddy whose fault it is that we're in the woods to go fetch more tubes.
 
Norman said:
I have a DRZ because my buddy kept convincing me my FJR was a dirt bike, to predictable results. Getting together a kit to fix a flat roadside underscored for me how _convenient_ tubeless tires are.

When I was married, and my wife's bike had tubes, but we were sticking to roads, I just had AAA RV+ tow insurance to summon a flatbed to wherever we were, and then I'd happily pay the dealer for that. It's really probably the best answer for a R-18.

For the DRZ, since we're out in the woods, I'm carrying the following kit.

Endurostar trail stand: https://www.endurostar.com/ lets you get either tire up using the kickstand as the pivot
This might be a little small for your application, but it only needs to hold 1/3 the weight of the bike

A pair of the tusk tire spoons of the appropriate size for your axle nuts
One spare tire iron in case I have a third hand
Motion Pro T6 Trail Bead Buddy in case I don't
Pro-buds comes in single-use packets: https://pro-buds.co/collections/tire-changing-paste-pro-buds-soap-lube/products/otho-packet
Red rags for various purposes including stuffing in your axle hole, and a tyvek mailer to change on (which also helps wrap tools)
Gloves and shop-towel-size wipes to have a fighting chance of wanting to put gloves on afterwards
Some flavor of air, I carry a dynaplug inflator, but I have a battery powered one in the car which will still use a 12v plug for backup in a pinch
Biggie pack of regular patches + scuffer
Extra tubes of rubber cement
Pliers + Wrench for valve stem nut + screwdriver for brake pads
(I added this kit: https://cruztools.com/product/speedkit-for-off-road-motorcycles-utv-atv/)
Valve tool + extra valves
Strap for the front brake
Spare heavy duty tube in the larger of the two tire sizes, packed with generous talc in vacuum bag (more to contain the mess than anything)

All of this except the tube and inflator fits in a manual canister strapped to the bike https://www.agrisupply.com/manual-canister-large-plain/p/109319/

My plan of action is get the wheel off, unmount one side, try to patch just by pulling the tube through
_When_ I puncture that tube in the process of remounting it, I can switch to the spare tube, and stuff the big tube in the little tire for the low-speed trip out of the woods.
_When_ I puncture that tube, I have a buddy whose fault it is that we're in the woods to go fetch more tubes.
Click to expand...

Thanks, you confirmed for me that there really is no simple way to do this, something I was overlooking. As you say, it's probably best just to get a tow to a dealer. That's a LOT of tools/kit to carry.
 
@Norman - Excellent post. You may want to add “tools to remove the wheels” to your packing list. ;)

On a big bike that can mean leverage is required. I packed a breaker bar or a full size 27mm combo wrench in the bottom of my pannier on the Super Tenere for wheel removal. (tire change on long trips for me, rather than tube repair). There are a few telescoping breaker bars/lug wrenches, but I could never pull the trigger on a dedicated piece of kit like that just for the bike. Easier to grab what I had on the relatively rare occasions I wanted to carry it.
 
EricV said:
@Norman - Excellent post. You may want to add “tools to remove the wheels” to your packing list. ;)

On a big bike that can mean leverage is required. I packed a breaker bar or a full size 27mm combo wrench in the bottom of my pannier on the Super Tenere for wheel removal. (tire change on long trips for me, rather than tube repair). There are a few telescoping breaker bars/lug wrenches, but I could never pull the trigger on a dedicated piece of kit like that just for the bike. Easier to grab what I had on the relatively rare occasions I wanted to carry it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, on the DRZ the tusk spoons are adequate to the task, little skinny axles.
 
I am confused a to why folks fit tubes to tubeless tyres on a modern bike...

Back in the dark days of cross or bias ply tyres on every bike, tubes were needed because the wheel rims did not allow tubeless tyres and were to all intents and purposes not sealed when tyres were fitted.
A puncture with a tube is an instant deflation, or certainly in seconds! Tubeless tyres have a "liner" layer which makes the casing non permeable.

A puncture on a tubeless tyre usually goes down much more slowly and it may be miles before you are aware of it, unless you have a TPMS equipped bike.

Tubed type tyres have a different aspect ratio (tyre width to sidewall depth) to tubeless ones, 90-100 percent compared to 82 percent or lower for tubeless.

Yes we all cheated and fitted tubes to the early tubeless tyres to save the tyre and so on, until of course we had tubeless repairs kit like wiggly worms etc.

Tyre sealants, well.... not going to go there as I use Dynabeads for balancing and have had bad experience with a sealant based "repair"....

Each to their own but if you must use tubes then you need to remove the wheel, unseat or remove the tyre and used a PRP or plug repair parch to do the repair from the inside out, which is considered permanent, this is the kind of repair they use on car tyres.

Never let anyone tell you just to stick a patch on the inside of the tyre over the hole as on modern motorcycle tyre there can be metal cords in the structure, yes many use polyamid or aramid or even polyester cord in the structrue, but if there is metal in there and you don't repair properly with a PRP, water gets straight in and corrodes those metal cords and it is simply another failure waiting to happen.

Sorry to jump in like this but folks need to understand the risks of using incorrect repair techniques on tube type or radial tyre technology and the potential consequences thereof!

If you consider this to be an egg sucking moment, my apologies, but not everyone knows tyres and the ins and outs of their construction and why repairs can be done badly, wrongly and possibly even dangerously!

HTH

YEMV.
 
Definitely not the most popular opinion, but I have used fix a flat in tubes many times to great success. Never in a bike as heavy as yours. The longest I did was about 100 miles on the front tire of an African twin.
 
Norman's post is pretty good and didn't miss much. Firstpeke is good too. Since half of my life experience pre-dates tubeless tires and I now have a new-to-me Tiger with tubes, I have had to update my flat-fix skills. (Will be sealing my wheels and running tubeless at the first forced opportunity.) When one has puncture in the middle of nowhere with the sun going down in 30F temps while being eaten alive by mosquitoes and sleeted upon in a 40mph gale, one needs to get the repair done quickly and reliably. These are good conditions as the flood waters might not be rising rapidly. As a first class scout, here is my preparedness.

Assuming one survives to get the bike and oneself out of traffic and into a safe place for the repair:
- retain/reassert as much humor as possible Creatively humorous cursing is SOP. If continuous cursing is required to effect the repair, check for nearby delicate ears.
- Hydrate and maybe nosh a bit while assessing the situation. Get the wheel off the ground. Note the offending object/nail(s) position if it is still in the tire. IBA notes that the vast majority of flats are in the rear wheel. That is the wheel that one should be prepared to fix.
- Get out your kit. (See my kit list below) and remove the wheel. I have seen adept riders patch a tube while the wheel is on the bike and tried it myself deciding that it was too much hassle to get good enough to make removing the wheel the bigger hassle. I like to lay the wheel flat where I can get a knee on th sidewall. Both knees if possible.
- Modern bikes like my Tiger have modern safety wheels requiring bead-breakers to get the tires off. A cheap, ordinary c-clamp of maybe 6" span might work if one knows how to use it. Does not matter what one uses to break the bead. It does matter that one knows how and can actually do it as necessary. Check the magic innerweb-thingie to see all kinds of stuff and techniques. A budd's side stand does a great job of breaking beads in a hurry.
- Break the bead on whatever side is necessary. Some wheels have off-set drop centers.
- Some riders like talc. I like lube: Soap&water, hair conditioner&water, small tin with mounting lube. You can guess where this goes when considering all possible lubes that actually work. Spread a little lube on the tire bead and the wheel flange.
- I like 3 tar arns. Nothing the matter with packing 5 arns if that comforts one's mind. Kneel on the sidewall 180 degrees from the valve and get the bead down into the drop center.
- Put an arn a cupple inches on each side of the valve on the bead that you want to get off. And pry the bead up and over the wheel flange one arn at a time. Just like the youtube vids like to show. Work around the tire till the bead clears.
- Free the valve stem and pull the tube. Some do this before levering off the bead.
- Get out your preferred source of air and gently inflate the tube noting all air leaks for patching.
- Install your spare/new tube, re-setting the valve, and inflate just enough to fluff it up a bit.
- lube the inside of the bead and a bit along the edge of the flange so that the tire goes back on smoothly.
- tire goes back on with bead opposite from valve first into the drop center and held with a knee while levers work each side up to the valve which goes in last.
- inflate to desired psi WHILE patching the holed tube. (Thus you will have a patched tube at the ready if you holed the new tube.) Test the patched tube before you have to use it. Keep swapping tubes until you get one that holds air.
- put the wheel back on, hydrate, nosh, check psi one last time before riding.
- put patch kit away and carry on.
- bask in glory that you are the master of your universe

Kit Considerations:
- small ground cloth to work upon as not all places might be clean and paved
- bug dope
- camping headlight as shit happens in the dark.
- kneeler (my knees are no longer happy with the way that I like to live.)
- Spare tube: heavy duty thing that does not tear and can be patched 50 times.
- vulcanizing glue works a little better than ordinary rubber cement. Some like a kind of contact cement.
- tubeless tire interior patches of more than one size. (I holed a tubeless so bad that a truck sized interior patch was needed to make it hold air)
- hint- pack at least 30 patches and strings/plugs to ward off the evil of flats as the gremlin bell is not perfect.

IMPORTANT: practice the procedure in the comfort of one's garage at least twice. Proves the value of the kit. Proves the value of the technique. Proves one's self.

While having a flat on one's home locale can be inconvenient with a lot of help from others, having one in a remote place can be very much troublesome. One can lose a whole day on a trip if not more, just because one cannot handle a flat on one's own.

Some riders going to very remote places might pack a tube for a tubeless tire that gets too shredded for plugs and interior patches to work. Technique works for tubeless tires that require an interior patch.

I can fix a flat on my antique Triumph with a spare tube in about 20min if I have to. My Tiger might take me an hour. Which is why I will eventually need new tires and will seal the wheels for plugs when I do the tire swap. Offset valve stems too.

Q&A right here.

ymmv,
fran
 
ibafran said:
IMPORTANT: practice the procedure in the comfort of one's garage at least twice. Proves the value of the kit. Proves the value of the technique. Proves one's self.
Click to expand...
That was going to be my advice. My daily driver has tubes and I change them myself. If your bike doesn't have a double kickstand then you'll need to add a jack of some kind.
 
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