600Km or 350 miles

OX-34

OX-34

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#1
#1
Gatey said:
It s an interesting thought cjmckay.
......The 560km maximum came in during May of 2022......
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Yowza. Gatey can you provide a link or location for that 'Rule'? And any idea of the 'trigger' for lowering the 600km down to 560km?

I won't bother submitting my recent 100CCC as I was working with the 15 year old 600km limit that Davo negotiated for Australia. I was also working with my own well established fuel stops over a dozen or so previous 50CC/100CCC rides.

Come to think about it most of my 80 or so IBA rides would have had a Leg of over 560km
 
Gatey

Gatey

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#2
#2
Hi Ox.

Found it in a round about way and its been confirmed by TJ in a PM as having come in to play in May2022 across the board.
Started following links from the 50ccques(USA)t link TJ posted in the 20th Anniversary Ride topic page 3 post54
It features in the SaddleSore 1000 documentation page as well.
I have always thought 600km was an Australian specific condition due to our sparse population. As you have also pointed out via Davos negotiation.
As I said at first I assumed t350m/560km was an continental US thing. Then I noted the metric distance and thought oh that's for Europe.

I love the big distance a 700+km fuel load gives. especially in the early stages of a ride to get out of my local orbit and into the ride mind set.
So yes I was shocked by the reading.
But its the rules and most rides have a link to the rules. I'm glad of the info so I don't stuff a ride through ignorance of a rule.
You could of course pull "its a guide line " argument.

TJ did go however point out these certification guys aren't that keen to bin a ride and If you present a logical explanation of a small excess of distance in the ride log its more a matter of explaining why.

Reading in section "SaddleSore1000"
WARNING: If your motorcycle is equipped with a large fuel-tank, please note that you must stop at least once every 350 miles for gas (this is purely for documentation for your ride). Although we know it is possible to ride greater distances non-stop, we will not accept a claim of this type.

Reading in section "Documentation Guidelines" Quote

No matter the fuel range of your motorcycle, the IBA requires you stop at least every 350 miles (560km) for a DBR. Check you DBR. City? State? Time of day? Date? All correct.
 
C

cjmckay

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#4
#4
In fact, the new rules should possibly be amended as they are self-conflicting. The 'Warning' stated about specifically states "you must stop at least once every 350 miles for gas' noting this is purely for documentation purposes, however the 'documentation guidelines' suggest you merely need a DBR. If it is for 'documentation purposes' then the DBR is should be the requirement. If it is for some other reason - then 'fuel' should be clearly and consistently stated. Perhaps the restriction could be modified/extended 'when Spot or other tamper-proof evidence collection methods are utilised.' if the reason is 'documentation' related? Shall watch with interest.... (Who would have thought such an innocuous question would lead us to this?)
 
OX-34

OX-34

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#5
#5
I'm just restarting this thread as it indirectly plays a part in Canadian Iron Butt Rally Vet Bam Baker's current 'Lap of the Paddock'.

600km is the key.

Below is the link to the most recent version of the 'Lap' rules:

https://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/centreline/index.html

Plus I have included snapshops of the page showing the current version in case of any changes.
 

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OX-34

OX-34

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#6
#6
TJ, can you please act to request that the historic 600km Australian be confirmed and/or reintroduced?
 
OX-34

OX-34

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#7
#7
tj189 said:
Receipts at 500km (oops 563KM or 350M)
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TJ, can you please act* to request that the historic 600km 'Australian' range limit be confirmed or reintroduced? The topic was raised in a recent Centreline 24 thread and since then I personally have heard nothing but crickets.

* I'm not really sure what your role/office/title is in relation to IBA Australia, but I understand you are at the top.
 
C

cjmckay

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#8
#8
From the rules, as written... (https://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/ssseries/index.html)
"WARNING: If your motorcycle is equipped with a large fuel-tank, please note that you must stop at least once every 350 miles for gas (this is purely for documentation for your ride). Although we know it is possible to ride greater distances non-stop, we will not accept a claim of this type."

So, technically he need only STOP for fuel. So, if he has pre-purchased and stored, stops and refuels and can document the stop (SPOT, photo etc.) then he is technically within the confines of the rules. A time, date & location stamped photo with GPS coordinates of his 'fuel store' could be considered 'evidence' - collaborated with SPOTWALLA.

In fact, if they/he leave a receipt with the fuel store - he meets the requirements 'as stated':
A log entry must be made at each gas stop (sample attached). A log entry includes the following information; DATE, TIME, TIME ZONE, LOCATION (i.e. Moline, IL) and ODOMETER reading. A receipt must accompany each log entry (please note, that the receipts from these gas stops, where possible should include a date stamp - we do NOT care about time stamps on these receipts, do not waste time worrying about time stamps, the only time stamps that are critical are the start and finish receipts!). Add an explanation (pretty much already documented here in the public domain) as to the how and why.
 
tj189

tj189

Premier Member
#9
#9
OX-34 said:
TJ, can you please act* to request that the historic 600km 'Australian' range limit be confirmed or reintroduced? The topic was raised in a recent Centreline 24 thread and since then I personally have heard nothing but crickets.

* I'm not really sure what your role/office/title is in relation to IBA Australia, but I understand you are at the top.
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Peter, I am part of the IBA Australia Management Team. We did respond to this a few months after we noticed it had been changed (around 3 years ago). There had been no advice or consultation between Howard or myself, it just occurred. We had put forward a case at the time, to him, that this distance was an agreement between Mike and "Davo" Jones. We were advised that the change back to the 350 miles (from memory it was changed back to 500Km) would remain.
 
tj189

tj189

Premier Member
#10
#10
OX-34 said:
I'm just restarting this thread as it indirectly plays a part in Canadian Iron Butt Rally Vet Bam Baker's current 'Lap of the Paddock'.

600km is the key.

Below is the link to the most recent version of the 'Lap' rules:

https://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/centreline/index.html

Plus I have included snapshops of the page showing the current version in case of any changes.
Click to expand...
Peter, the document was correct in 2016, however the 600Km distance requirement has changed back to 350Miles. We will update the document as soon as we can.
 
C

cjmckay

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#12
#12
How does anyone get 500km from 350miles? 500km is 309miles. Perhaps it was supposed to be 550km? (being still less than 350miles).
 
OX-34

OX-34

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#13
TJ, I prefer transparency but don't want to hijack Bam's thread. Perhaps we could take this around the back to PMs?

Just a point, though. "..back to 500Km"? It was never at 500km. It was 600km. Perhaps re-reading the email from Howard may be more reliable than memory. Unless you meant to type 'reduced to 500km' which would put Australian IBA riders at a particular disadvantage that you accept.

A quick scan or the current rules for rides revealed this little pearler ridden by Trevor Evans with "....600 kilometres or less.." listed in the rules.

https://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/tde/index.html
 
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tj189

tj189

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#14
#14
cjmckay said:
How does anyone get 500km from 350miles? 500km is 309miles. Perhaps it was supposed to be 550km? (being still less than 350miles).
Click to expand...
it was a figure in one of the amendment from IBA, an obvious mistake in our minds. the latest requirement for the SS1600K shows 350 miles or in our terms 560Km
 
Vlad

Vlad

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#15
#15
I have only been able to find documented requirements in two rides in Australia ,Davo’s center line 24 and Karl’s worlds end ride. Both state 600 kilometres. I have never seen a document that commuted that, the IBA regs state the main purpose for the 350 mile stop interval and I quote” to document your ride” This place is not like anywhere else, not a lot of corners. It’s always been six hundred k here and here is where we ride. Cant see the point of all this angst for 50 k between stops.
 
tj189

tj189

Premier Member
#16
#16
OX-34 said:
TJ, I prefer transparency but don't want to hijack Bam's thread. Perhaps we could take this around the back to PMs?

Just a point, though. "..back to 500Km"? It was never at 500km. It was 600km. Perhaps re-reading the email from Howard may be more reliable than memory. Unless you meant to type 'reduced to 500km' which would put Australian IBA riders at a particular disadvantage that you accept.
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Peter, you are correct regarding the 600km, one of the ride updates for the SS1600k did have 500Km, an obvious mistake in our minds. the current requirement in the latest amendment is 350 miles (it is not converted to km). I do not have a copy of the rule version that had the 500km, you will have to accept my word for that.
 
tj189

tj189

Premier Member
#19
#19
OX-34 said:
TJ, I prefer transparency but don't want to hijack Bam's thread. Perhaps we could take this around the back to PMs?

Just a point, though. "..back to 500Km"? It was never at 500km. It was 600km. Perhaps re-reading the email from Howard may be more reliable than memory. Unless you meant to type 'reduced to 500km' which would put Australian IBA riders at a particular disadvantage that you accept.

A quick scan or the current rules for rides revealed this little pearler ridden by Trevor Evans with "....600 kilometres or less.." listed in the rules.

https://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/tde/index.html
Click to expand...
Peter,

I am not sure why you have highlighted this ride of mine other than in an attempt to either embarass or bully myself . May I request that you cease and desist your attack on me personaly.

There is no dispute from myself or any of the IBA Australia Management Team regarding the use of 600km distance requirement for documentation. We, IBA Australian members did not change nor request that this distance be changed to the current 350 miles. As we have requested that this be changed back to the original 600Km and that it has been rejected by Howard, may I suggest that you and other riders take the complaint to him.
 
Gatey

Gatey

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#20
#20
We need 600km reinstated ASAP.
It should never have been in question and I'll point to a mention I made much earlier this year to this issue.
 
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