Brit Butt Rally 25th to 27th May 2018

The back-up system in the old days would be for John to have used his spare camera after wrecking his main one; the back-up system this time would be for him to use his spare phone but he failed to plan for unseen events.
A spare camera does not require a second phone subscription or connection as far as I'm aware.
The decision to go all technical has cost the rally as it has dissuaded several rally vets from entering this year. Only 25 entrants "shocking".
 
Well I for one had a good time and enjoyed myself. I would like to thank those who took the time to organise the rally and who turned out to facilitate our participation.

A few observations if I may.

I would suggest I am a rally vet, competent to finish every rally if not score particularly highly. Although a high score is not my first priority (6 BBR's, 1 BBL and the Euro Tour.)

I have not been put off by going 'all technical'. If you are a rally vet you will be able to work Base Camp or some other similar system, and your GPS. Indeed this forum requires some technical ability.
A simple email with an attachment should be no problem.

My understanding is that about 10 entrants could not attend due to a clash of date's.

I am sad to hear of John's early exit as he's a strong competitor and I very much enjoy his company. A Sim card can always be swapped into a compatible spare device.

So I will be looking forward to next year's rally and God willing intend to enter again, happly willing to be flexible and thankful as every for the assistance of volunteers.
 

Quill4

Brit Butt Rallymaster
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
A spare camera does not require a second phone subscription or connection as far as I'm aware.
The decision to go all technical has cost the rally as it has dissuaded several rally vets from entering this year. Only 25 entrants "shocking".
I think that your use of the phrase "as far as I am aware" tells us all that we need to know. As for the rally going "technical", it did that years ago when it embraced GPS's, devices that are far more expensive to replace, or carry more than one of, than the modern smartphone. As probably the only British rider to have done all of my Iron Butt Rallies using a map, then I guess that I should be there with you moaning about the move away from the "traditional" rally format. The trouble is, there is no such thing as a traditional rally. What you have is a tradition of your own making, a format that you like and you don't want to change from. Some good news for you, there are not enough rallies in the UK, I'm sure that Phil will give you the go ahead to organise 'The'Colonels Traditional Rally'; I'd even enter it myself because I've done them in every which way: Polaroid’s, maps, phone, no phone. It's called flexibility; something that my rallying peers have stated is a good attribute to possess.

There were more new riders this year then there were traditionalists, like yourself, who withheld their entrance fee in protest. Should we say to them that they need to buy a camera, sorry, two cameras, a spare in case they drop it, which they will never use outside the rally because they have one on their phone?

Yes the starting numbers were disappointing, but 36 entered, and none of the eleven who dropped out cited late qualms over the move from pen and paper to smartphone as their reason for doing so. So come on Colonel, don't just stand on the sidelines and gloat at what you perceive as the failure of this years rally; give us the benefit of your wisdom. Do you really believe that the rallying world is a better place with a camera that you use once a year, a pile of soggy paper and a last minute scrum at a scoring table? Make the case, and if you convince me I will co-opt you as my senior assistant for next years event, the person who will convince every rider under the age of 40 that smartphones will never catch on and are the Devil's plaything.
 
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FazerPhil

President IBA UK
Staff member
Premier Member
IBR Finisher
I have been involved in all 11 Brit butt rallies. This was without doubt the fairest ever scoring. Simply due to the fact that all bonuses where scored by the same two people rather than multiple scorers making Different decisions.
Ken you haven't attended any IBAUK event for years. We would love to see you again rather than you getting just a partial view off the forum.
 

FazerPhil

President IBA UK
Staff member
Premier Member
IBR Finisher
A spare camera does not require a second phone subscription or connection as far as I'm aware.
The decision to go all technical has cost the rally as it has dissuaded several rally vets from entering this year. Only 25 entrants "shocking".
There were 36 entrants
 

Quill4

Brit Butt Rallymaster
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
Rally Trivia:

Out of the 81 bonuses that were available in this years rally, only one was not visited, number 63 in Tenby.

63 Tenby.jpg
 

Scott Miller

An American in Europe
Premier Member
Thanks Steve and everyone, participants and helpers, for the great rally! I really enjoyed the format and theme this year. The locations were varied and you had a great selection of regions and themes to pursue. Of course for me, riding in nice weather through Scotland made it even better.

I would agree with Robert that having some feedback after the rally would be nice. I'm pretty sure I know what I did wrong, or where I can improve, but having some feedback was missing this time. Not sure how easy that would be to implement, but I think it would be a nice addition.

I do also miss the BBR rider-number tote bags - much easier to hang on bonus items, more robust, and can be used after the rally for packing dirty laundry :cool:
 
So my use of the phrase "as far as I'm Aware" tells you all you need to know does it. So does a spare camera need a second subscription and connection you tell me.
For years I have advocated change in many aspects of IBAUK decisions but have always been fobbed off with well that's the way we do it.
There are at least two regular BB rally entrants on this very post that have stated the change to smart phone bonus verification has led them to not partake this year (page 1 post No 10 and 14).
Don't read my posts as a complaint about the organisers of the rally I've got nothing but admiration for the hard work put in by the rally master and his assistants, but why change the format of a successful rally the scoring table is the ultimate test for the participants. I know from personal experience how a wrong time on the petrol log or a forgotten receipt from a bonus location can ruin a well planned rally.
Take away the table and the result is a sanitised end to what should be a traumatised time for the entrants.
Phil I hope to retire in July and then I will be free to attend some meetings again I'm sure we will find some thing of mutual interest to talk about !!
Ken.T
 

Quill4

Brit Butt Rallymaster
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
So my use of the phrase "as far as I'm Aware" tells you all you need to know does it. So does a spare camera need a second subscription and connection you tell me.
For years I have advocated change in many aspects of IBAUK decisions but have always been fobbed off with well that's the way we do it.
There are at least two regular BB rally entrants on this very post that have stated the change to smart phone bonus verification has led them to not partake this year (page 1 post No 10 and 14).
Don't read my posts as a complaint about the organisers of the rally I've got nothing but admiration for the hard work put in by the rally master and his assistants, but why change the format of a successful rally the scoring table is the ultimate test for the participants. I know from personal experience how a wrong time on the petrol log or a forgotten receipt from a bonus location can ruin a well planned rally.
Take away the table and the result is a sanitised end to what should be a traumatised time for the entrants.
Phil I hope to retire in July and then I will be free to attend some meetings again I'm sure we will find some thing of mutual interest to talk about !!
Ken.T
No, it doesn't, and nor does a second phone. Take out sim card from broken phone and put it in the spare phone.

You are correct that two veterans stated on this forum that they were not entering because of the move to smartphones. If you want to play the numbers game, I have spoken to four rookies who told me that they would not have entered if it was a paper rally. Do the math's, which way ends up at no rally quicker?
 

saphena

IBAUK Webmaster
Premier Member
IBA Member
Ken, have you got a point to this?

I don't know you and I don't know how well known you are to other readers of this forum so I can only go by the written word in front of me and the clear message I'm getting is that you are "having a whinge" motivated by - I don't know what but perhaps sour grapes caused by your attempts at advocating change having being rejected and now someone else has managed to introduce a change.

With respect, you are speaking from a certain level of ignorance and that phrase "as far as I'm aware" is a well-recognised flag. It's short for "I don't know but I don't know that I'm wrong". The second phone thing is another example: whether or not it needs a second subscription is irrelevant as you can buy a phone for as little as £30 and a sim card (connection) for a further £10 - that's cheaper than a digital camera and just as easily purchased on the go.

You seem to be implying that there is something wrong with a rally format which fails to cater for a rider with no backup in the event of his breaking his phone and that this would in some way be different if for example he'd broken his motorcycle or his satnav. Anyone competing in an IBA rally is going to need a working motorbike as well as various other bits of kit; whether one of those bits is a mobile phone is entirely academic these days, we've all got them and life becomes difficult when they break.

You may not be intending to complain about the organisers of the rally but that is very definitely the effect you are having. IBAUK is made up of a small number of individuals who put a lot of effort into making things happen for the pleasure of many. Let's not forget that that's what this is all about. We ride motorbikes, run rallies, rides-to-eat and whatever else goes on for fun. If, sitting at home in your armchair, you're not having fun, I am sorry for you but it's not my job, or that of any other IBA member, to make sure you have fun. That's entirely up to you.

It is possible that you are right and we failed to run a perfect rally this weekend but, here's the rub, we who made all that happen, the rally team and the rally competitors, already know, in some detail, what went well and what could be improved. 22 people qualified as finishers and I don't recall any of them saying "I wish I hadn't entered that rally". Yes, there were some whinges about this, that and the other, just like every other year but despite all that everybody had fun and, as I said above, that's what it's all about.

Everybody likes to have a moan every now and then. Every time any change is introduced into anything there is the possibility that it might not be as wholly beneficial as hoped for, sometimes it'll even be a backward step. Every time a change is not introduced there is a risk of a missed opportunity, a missed chance to stay relevant - think of the British motor industry at the end of the 1960s.

IBAUK is a small group involved in a rare and challenging pursuit that of long-distance motorcycling; we should be supporting one another in positive ways and building the community rather than nitpicking, finding fault and spreading dissent.

Moan complete - as you were. :)
 
FYI - I made it to Tenby (63), but it was late Saturday pm and place was packed with pedestrians. Did not feel comfortable parking up and leaving bike. Could not see statue and being a bit frazzled ditched it and went on to next one.
Darren.
 
Thanks to everyone for a great BBR2018, sorry 1881. My first and certainly not my last. I arrived on Friday with considerable trepidation about being a real novice and having no idea what I had got myself into. I had visions of a bunch of experts in an exclusive club that I was about to gatecrash. Nothing could have been further from the truth. A warm welcome as though I was an old friend, some simple and clear instructions about what was expected and at every stage everything was clear. I felt immediately at home. I really enjoyed the challenge of putting together a route for the ride and it gave me a chance to go places I didn't know so well - North East region in particular. It was great to be in the company of like minded people who just like to ride their bikes as long as they can. Even my wife was really pleased that I had managed to get out and do a really long ride without having to make her suffer as a passenger (she really wasn't happy when we went to Limoges recently 'cos I wanted to do the whole 630 mile journey in one go). I don't think she'll be volunteering to be a pillion next year.

If I may offer a comment about the event. I wonder if it might have been possible to print out a copy of each participants final route with perhaps a tick or cross next to each location visited to show where points were gained or lost. I did get the impression that no-one was so precious about their mistakes that they would have wanted their results kept secret, and I would have loved to see other peoples choice of routes for the rally. Given the digital nature of recording our routes, I imagine it would not be beyond the capabilities of the tech to print out a brief summary to put on display for everyone to see. Just a thought, but I still don't know how all football venues were visited in the time and am in awe of that achievement.

Thanks again for everyone, organisers and veteran BBR competitors, for making this a brilliant weekend.

See you all again soon.
 
"Ken, have you got a point to this?"

Answer :- My point is why make changes where changes are not needed.

"I don't know you and I don't know how well known you are to other readers of this forum so I can only go by the written word in front of me and the clear message I'm getting is that you are "having a whinge" motivated by - I don't know what but perhaps sour grapes caused by your attempts at advocating change having being rejected and now someone else has managed to introduce a change."

Answer :- I've been a contributor to this forum since 2007 and a regular participant of IBA events since the first BBR in 2008 competing in the first 4 rallies along with the first 2 BBlight rallies and the second and so far last of the Bally rallies in Ireland. A serious accident in 2011 has curtailed my long distance rides but on a good day I have ridden 500 miles.
As for sour grapes your right you don't know me, I'm adult enough to accept rejection without being offended as you say in a different comment in this reply the proposer to change isn't the loser if the change would have made a difference.

With respect, you are speaking from a certain level of ignorance and that phrase "as far as I'm aware" is a well-recognised flag. It's short for "I don't know but I don't know that I'm wrong". The second phone thing is another example: whether or not it needs a second subscription is irrelevant as you can buy a phone for as little as £30 and a sim card (connection) for a further £10 - that's cheaper than a digital camera and just as easily purchased on the go.

Answer :- Who's the bright spark that decides that a phrase or comment is a flag of ignorance. My words were merely a question with regard to the cost implications of a second phone being a requirement of having a chance of completing a "FUN EVENT"

You seem to be implying that there is something wrong with a rally format which fails to cater for a rider with no backup in the event of his breaking his phone and that this would in some way be different if for example he'd broken his motorcycle or his satnav. Anyone competing in an IBA rally is going to need a working motorbike as well as various other bits of kit; whether one of those bits is a mobile phone is entirely academic these days, we've all got them and life becomes difficult when they break.

Answer :- You seem to read a lot into my comments about backup, in the past if you lost your rally flag there was a rule whereby you could still get the bonus point by being in the picture of the location, surely in this case if your first choice camera (phone) became u/s a normal digital camera could have been used and the pictures verified at the rally base at the end of the ride, this would at least meant that every rider was still in with a chance of a finish.

You may not be intending to complain about the organisers of the rally but that is very definitely the effect you are having. IBAUK is made up of a small number of individuals who put a lot of effort into making things happen for the pleasure of many. Let's not forget that that's what this is all about. We ride motorbikes, run rallies, rides-to-eat and whatever else goes on for fun. If, sitting at home in your armchair, you're not having fun, I am sorry for you but it's not my job, or that of any other IBA member, to make sure you have fun. That's entirely up to you.

Answer :- There you go again reading something into my post that isn't intended.
One point though its the membership that calls and organises RTE's I know because I've organised several and attended many that were organised by members.

It is possible that you are right and we failed to run a perfect rally this weekend but, here's the rub, we who made all that happen, the rally team and the rally competitors, already know, in some detail, what went well and what could be improved. 22 people qualified as finishers and I don't recall any of them saying "I wish I hadn't entered that rally". Yes, there were some whinges about this, that and the other, just like every other year but despite all that everybody had fun and, as I said above, that's what it's all about.

Answer :- Reading between the lines again !!
Just one point though after every rally that I entered my thoughts were why did I do that, because it was hell on wheels. It was meant to be hard, minimum millage requirement, rest period to be taken between 23:00 Saturday and 06:00 Sunday, meant you could ride for 17 hrs. straight before taking a break, fuel log and the dreaded scoring table, warranted the title "Toughest rally in Britain".

Everybody likes to have a moan every now and then. Every time any change is introduced into anything there is the possibility that it might not be as wholly beneficial as hoped for, sometimes it'll even be a backward step. Every time a change is not introduced there is a risk of a missed opportunity, a missed chance to stay relevant - think of the British motor industry at the end of the 1960s.

Answer :- Refer to answer No2

IBAUK is a small group involved in a rare and challenging pursuit that of long-distance motorcycling; we should be supporting one another in positive ways and building the community rather than nitpicking, finding fault and spreading dissent.

Answer :- And long may it continue :) ;)

Moan complete - as you were. :)
 

Quill4

Brit Butt Rallymaster
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
Answer :- My point is why make changes where changes are not needed.

That is an opinion, not a fact.

in the past if you lost your rally flag there was a rule whereby you could still get the bonus point by being in the picture of the location

You still can, two riders lost their flags, both carried on riding by being in the picture.

surely in this case if your first choice camera (phone) became u/s a normal digital camera could have been used and the pictures verified at the rally base at the end of the ride.

And if your digital camera was broken you could use a Polaroid, and if your Polaroid was out of film you could provide a sketch, and if you broke your pencil you could just say you were there.....yep, I see your point Ken. Have a totally inappropriate backup.

you could ride for 17 hrs. straight before taking a break

Start time time for this years Rally was 05:00, Sleep bonus began at 22:00, er, that is 17 hours by my reckoning, so no change there then.

Carry on Ken, I'm beginning to enjoy this.
 
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Answer :- My point is why make changes where changes are not needed.

That is an opinion, not a fact.

in the past if you lost your rally flag there was a rule whereby you could still get the bonus point by being in the picture of the location

You still can, two riders lost their flags, both carried on riding by being in the picture.

surely in this case if your first choice camera (phone) became u/s a normal digital camera could have been used and the pictures verified at the rally base at the end of the ride.

And if your digital camera was broken you could use a Polaroid, and if your Polaroid was out of film you could provide a sketch, and if you broke your pencil you could just say you were there.....yep, I see your point Ken. Have a totally inappropriate backup.

you could ride for 17 hrs. straight before taking a break

Start time time for this years Rally was 05:00, Sleep bonus began at 22:00, er, that is 17 hours by my reckoning, so no change there then.

Carry on Ken, I'm beginning to enjoy this.
There's no point in arguing with you as you seem to take every comment as an insult.
The point to my initial comment is the rally format has been altered (in my opinion). It is billed as the most difficult rally in the country and it was, (also my opinion). But in it's current incarnation one could theoretically leave the rally H.Q. at 06:00 (05;00) travel to the nearest bonus take a picture and return back to bed and at 18;00 on Sunday be declared a finisher (another of my opinions) but you or anybody else cant deny me my views, the event has been diluted and the lack of entries is my proof.