Nesting, help me understand

Ira

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#21
Again, as explained to me, Mile Eater certifications require independent rides.

I did my rides with a ~36 hour layover in the middle of them. Thus, by definition, it's a whole new ride for certification purposes, complete with ending log and witness sheets.

The ride become rides by what I'll call "a line of demarcation" You have to stop riding, be done, and off the clock for some period of time before another ride starts.

New log, new witness sheets, et. al.
I'll be checking with Mike, but the intent of the rule is that one sould not pick up credit for two Mile Eater rides by using the same mileage for both (e.g., the first 1,000 miles of a nested Bun Burner 1500/Saddlesore 1000 is used by both rides). By only crediting one ride of a nested series for Mile Eater purposes, one does not violate that interpretation.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 

kwthom

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#22
Agreed! Third paragraph in my prior post is my solution. The "line of demarcation" must be established, with a clear beginning and end.

Then, and only then, does it become a 'different' ride.
 

Ira

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#23
I checked with Mike, and it turns out what I said was correct - that if one does nested rides, only the largest counts toward the Mile Eater ride count. But it gets a little more complicated than that. So if your head explodes easily, I would stop right here.

For those with hardier heads, Mike informs me that the above is true, but there is a difference between how we handle the NUMBER of rides that qualify for Miles Eater status and how we handle nested rides as far as Mile Eater AWARD LEVELS are concerned.

In a nutshell, only one ride (the largest) counts toward the ride total, but it and any extreme rides nested within it can count toward the Gold, Silver, or other medal-level total. So it's possible to have one ride count toward the ride total, but two or three or more rides within it count toward the medal level. As an example, if we go back to the original question where we decided that one could apply for the Saddlesore 5000, the BBG Trifecta, the Saddlesore 2000, and the 100ccc and one was going for the Mile Eater GOLD level, one could claim the SS5K as one of the twenty required rides, but could count the SS5K, the BBG trifecta, and the 100ccc toward the required five GOLD or extreme-level rides (the SS2K, not being GOLD, extreme, or greater than 48 hours, would not count at all for the ME award).

Is that exploding heads I hear? :)

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 
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#25
Completed my ride this past Thursday morning. Weather was really perfect, temps were moderate; only real complaint... too dang sunny ;-). Made it from Ocean Beach, CA to Jacksonville Beach, FL in 47hr22min to successfully complete the 50cc. Also completed during this ride a BB1500 Silver 1582 miles in 29hr43min. Also, completed a Saddlesore 3000/BunBurner 3000 in 68hr even. Unfortunately, did not make my 100ccc, I pretty much collapsed in Flatonia, Texas at hour 78 with just 7hrs of sleep. Overall mileage for this trip via odometer. 4,642 miles + @ 370 miles to ride start in San Diego.

Better time management. Need to stay in the seat longer. Range, is no more than 140 miles per tank at speed limits. My bike sucks for this purpose. Seat gets uncomfortable at @ 100 miles. Also, about 3 hrs sleep before ride start wasn't good start.
 

RichmonS

Premier Member
#26
I did my 100CCC and it was harder than I thought it would be. You need a bike with at least 200 miles of range to limit the stops and allow for several hours a sleep a night.

I did a SS1K prior to the 100CCC so I got three certs (100CCC, SS1K and SS6K). I can only the 100CC and SS1K towards Mile Eater status but I just had to get the SS6K.
 
#27
allow for several hours a sleep a night.
Thats what I forgot to do on my 100ccc - just rode straight through each way with 6 hours sleep at the halfway point. Wasn't necessary as I left plenty of time on the clock; but for some reason - I'm just always in a hurry. Definitely trying to pace myself as I go on longer timed rides.
 

kwthom

Rider
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IBA Member
#31
<...>Also, about 3 hrs sleep before ride start wasn't good start.
Yeah, don't *I* know it!

I've been experimenting for two months on how to help that issue...I think I may have it!

Six hours, and I'm golden!

Well, you got part of the ride done - I've not yet considered the 100CCC just yet. I have another ride to get out of the way first. :)
 

kwthom

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#32
In a nutshell, only one ride (the largest) counts toward the ride total, but it and any extreme rides nested within it can count toward the Gold, Silver, or other medal-level total.
I'll agree, but this seems to be an ongoing issue of how one rider would parse any given ride without the knowledge that I've quoted above. If there's a rider out there trying to sort this out, one might consider graphically plotting a ride (i.e. simplified Gantt chart) for that evaluation.

https://forum.ironbutt.org/index.php?threads/multiple-certificates-in-one-ride.90/

Yet, it's those GOLD, extreme, or greater than 48 hour rides - which are NOT executed by the majority of riders - that may be confusing to neophyte members of our little group. Understanding those nuances makes comprehending whether or not any given series of certifications will qualify for Mile Eater status.

Is that exploding heads I hear? :)
Faintly...in the background... ;)
 
#33
2. You pay full-boat for the most expensive ride and $20 (certificate-only) for each additional ride.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
Ira, I am planning on submitting 4 rides for certification: 2x SS1K, 1x BBG, 1x SS2k Gold. You mentioned that it's the most expensive ride + $20 for each additional. I see prices for a SS1K, BBG, and a combo for a SS1K & BBG. I do not see a price for a SS2K/SS2K Gold, so guessing same as any other single ride--- $40?.

If I figure correctly, it's $100 for these four. TIA
 

Ira

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#34
Ira, I am planning on submitting 4 rides for certification: 2x SS1K, 1x BBG, 1x SS2k Gold. You mentioned that it's the most expensive ride + $20 for each additional. I see prices for a SS1K, BBG, and a combo for a SS1K & BBG. I do not see a price for a SS2K/SS2K Gold, so guessing same as any other single ride--- $40?.

If I figure correctly, it's $100 for these four. TIA
Are you considering applying for all of these certificates on the same ride? That is, are they all nested together? If so, because I don't understand how you actually rode this, I'm afraid I can't comment. For example, as I've stated earlier, if one ride is by definition completed within another, we only issue one certificate. So, for example, we wouldn't issue certificates for an SS2K and an SS2k GOLD for the same ride (because everyone who completes an SS2K GOLD has by definition also completed an SS2K. Similarly, there is no SS1K/BBG combination (although one could have both an SS1K and Bun Burner 1500 certified on the same ride).

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 
#35
Are you considering applying for all of these certificates on the same ride? That is, are they all nested together? If so, because I don't understand how you actually rode this, I'm afraid I can't comment. For example, as I've stated earlier, if one ride is by definition completed within another, we only issue one certificate. So, for example, we wouldn't issue certificates for an SS2K and an SS2k GOLD for the same ride (because everyone who completes an SS2K GOLD has by definition also completed an SS2K. Similarly, there is no SS1K/BBG combination (although one could have both an SS1K and Bun Burner 1500 certified on the same ride).

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association

I am working on the 12 Ides 1000 Insanity, which requires 13 rides of at least 1000 miles on the Ides of 12 consecutive months. Since there are 13 rides and only 12 months to do them, 2 of the rides need to be be done back-to-back, overlapping on the Ides of that month. Technically, these are two completely separate SS1K rides, and in this case, I ended-up meeting the standards for a BBG (1516 miles/23:43), and a SS2K Gold (2157 miles/35:25).

Since this is a nesting thread, I am assuming that all 4 rides would count as qualifying rides in the Mile Eater program, since the two SS1K rides are part of an Insanity series, and the BBG and SS2K Gold are by definition included in the Mile Eater program. I'm still trying to figure out the effects of ladening swallows, both European and African. :)


EDIT: Yes, all of this was done over 2 1/2 days.
 

Ira

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#36
Since this is a nesting thread, I am assuming that all 4 rides would count as qualifying rides in the Mile Eater program, since the two SS1K rides are part of an Insanity series, and the BBG and SS2K Gold are by definition included in the Mile Eater program.

EDIT: Yes, all of this was done over 2 1/2 days.
Here's the rub. The Ides 1000 Insanity requires 13 Saddlesore 1000s. If I understand you correctly, in the month that you completed the two Saddlesore 1000s, you finished the first and essentially immediately started and completed the second. If I also understand you correctly, you want certificates during the last two Saddlesore 1000s to also include a Bun Burner GOLD and an SS2K GOLD.

It is true that one can complete an SS2K GOLD (2,000 miles in 36 hours or less) without necessarily completing a Bun Burner GOLD (1,500 miles in 24 hours or less). So we could issue those two on the same ride. But one can't complete either the BBG or the SS2K GOLD without necessarily completing at least one SS1K. So we couldn't issue all three on the same ride. But if you don't certify the SS1K, you won't complete the Ides 1000 Insanity. So you're stuck between the rock and the hard place.

With regard to the Mile Eater program, the Ides 1000 Insanity is not considered an extreme ride for this purpose, just like the Four Seasons ride - they are separate rides amalgamated for the Ides award. Moreover, one can't use more than one ride in a nest. So if you decided to go for the BBG/SS2K GOLD series, you could only use one of them.

So the bottom line, if I understand all this correctly, is that you can apply for the Ides 1000 Insanity award (and the 13 SS1Ks) or you can apply for the BBG/SS2K GOLD combination (with one of them going toward a Mile Eater award, plus 12 SS1Ks). But not both.

You can see why trying to figure these things our can make one's head explode. :)

Ira Agins
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413Sean

Premier Member
#37
Noob to this forum here. Lots of head explosion reading about this nesting topic. My question is can a BBG and a ss2kgold be nested together? I'm going to do both this weekend(leaving Saturday midnight, arrive back Monday before 12pm) about a 2150mile ride. If so do you get both certificates? And how much does it cost? To my understanding it's the highest cost of one of the two rides, plus $20 for the extra cert and other mementos like a patch and pin. I do however understand only one of the rides can be used towards mile eater:). Thanks in advance for any responses -Sean
 
#38
Noob to this forum here. Lots of head explosion reading about this nesting topic. My question is can a BBG and a ss2kgold be nested together? I'm going to do both this weekend(leaving Saturday midnight, arrive back Monday before 12pm) about a 2150mile ride. If so do you get both certificates? And how much does it cost? To my understanding it's the highest cost of one of the two rides, plus $20 for the extra cert and other mementos like a patch and pin. I do however understand only one of the rides can be used towards mile eater:). Thanks in advance for any responses -Sean
Hi Sean - you got it. A BBG and SS2KG can be nested together with one counting towards Mile Eater status. As you stated - you would pay the higher of the two plus $20 for second certification; but I assume you are likely to want additional swag. Even though you are new to the forum; I also assume you are already an IBA member and have completed/certified at least one SS1K - otherwise you will need to have a SS1K certified before attempting a Gold level ride. Good luck.
 

413Sean

Premier Member
#39
Thanks scott. I've some other rides before but never actually documented them. Last April I went ahead and said I'm doing the ss1k and got it certified. Now the obsession continues!
 
#40
You can see why trying to figure these things our can make one's head explode. :)

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
Head. Exploding. LOL!

I am not sure why rides in a series labeled as "Insanity", wouldn't be considered as "Insane", themselves. Though they are "merely" SS1Ks, they carry an additional requirement, as listed in the series description. I'm cool with it, just not sure the reasoning. In my case, I DEFINITELY need the two SS1Ks certified, because those go towards completing the series. I would also love to get the BBG and SS2K Gold certifications since I met those standards as well.

According to the requirements of the series, there are 13 rides on the Ides of 12 consecutive months. Two of those rides have to overlap on the Ides of that month. Assume that the Ides was on the 15th (which in this case, it was), and assume that the entirety of the ride stayed within the same time zone. Remember that each ride has to start and end in a city that begins with a particular letter. In this case, I was working on the letters "R" and "E".

I could start my ride on the 14th at 2am in city "R" and ride at least 1,000 miles and finish in the same city on the 15th at 1am. This would qualify the ride since I rode at least 1,000 miles in under 24 hours and since I finished that ride on the 15th, it meets the requirement that I ride on the Ides of the month. Now at this point I have a couple of options:

  1. Immediately travel to city "E" and begin the second required ride.
  2. Take a break until 11pm (almost a full day), then travel to city "E" and begin the second ride, making sure it begins on the 15th as well.
Now this is important because if I had chosen #2, I wouldn't have even qualified for either a BBG OR SS2K Gold, since the clock doesn't stop at the end of the first ride and I definitely wouldn't have been able to meet the mileage/time requirements for either, even though I would for the two SS1Ks for the series. The clock for the BBG and SS2K Gold started the moment I got my receipt at the start in city "R", but the clock and mileage for my second ride didn't start until I got to city "E". So if it took me 3 hours and 170 miles to get to city "E", neither would count for that second ride, but they would for a BBG and SS2K Gold.

So I guess what I am getting at is that this isn't the same as doing a 3,000-mile 50CC ride and trying to claim 3 SS1Ks as well. These were two, completely independent rides, and in completing them, I also managed to complete two other certifications.

I need a drink, LOL. :)