Rally camera?

RFlagg42

IBR Finisher
#21
The photo is loaded to the SD adapter then reloaded to the micro, that violates the no modification rule. If I have that wrong I'm sure someone will correct me and you will get the right answer. :eek:)
The adapter has no storage capability, nor does it modify the files. It is just simple wires that connect the metal contacts of a traditional SD card to the metal contacts of a micro-SD card.
 

Patrick Ford

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#22
Than was just what I remembered from posts about the subject and the discusion was quit awhile ago.
I probably got it wrong.
IIRC process you described is what made the photo modified.
 
#23
Than was just what I remembered from posts about the subject and the discusion was quit awhile ago.
I probably got it wrong.
IIRC process you described is what made the photo modified.
The card adapter does not modify anything at all. It is simply a function of "fit" into the reader slot.

There must be another reason.
 

Patrick Ford

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#24
You guys should ask Ira as my reasons are as I remember the discussions, which really makes them suspect. Besides, what I know about digital cameras doesn't go much beyond the button to see the pics I've taken.
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#26
Just FYI, Tom Austin is updating some of the rules regarding camera cards, eliminating some that no one uses any more.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 
#28
I can't speak for Ira or IBA but I can speak for TeamStrange and Butt Lite.

We haven't allowed Micro SD cards for 2 reasons. One, we've had problems with micro cards in adapters not working or being flaky and the last thing we want to do is introduce another way for a rider to lose points through no fault of their own (we provide enough opportunities for riders to lose points through their own fault). Two, if we allow micro SD cards, riders will want to use the micro SD cards from their phones (either as primary or as a backup) and that can create lots of problems - the phone may store apps or personal information on the SD card and when the rider removes the card and turns it in, that breaks something in the phone. Since we keep the camera cards at scoring, we don't want to be getting somebody's medical information or apps they paid for or anything like that.

We have a small sample size but it seems like the weird problems and data loss always happen with xD cards. SD cards are cheap and available everywhere, as are AA batteries, if something breaks.
 
#29
I see DEBS' point but SD will go the way of CF and already there is a $50 camera that is waterproof but not useable for a rally because it uses micoSD. If someone is silly enough to store non-photo information on his/her mobile phone storage card and then subsequently give that card to someone else - so be it. Stupid is as stupid does. Mobile phones have a significant advantage for rally cameras. The ability up to upload your pictures to any of a dozen cloud services (I use Google and Dropbox) means never - ever - losing a photo. Until RM's catch up with technology I use a camera with wifi and transfer the pictures to my mobile phone a couple of times a day which means the pictures get moved to the cloud services but there is still a window where I could lose my pictures. This is a race condition and so far I have not lost a picture. The system the IBA used at the Plane Crazy rides (and has used before) whereby you email your photos in near-real-time works well as mobile data service is ubiquitous. Once the email is delivered the picture is secure.
 
#30
Polaroid went away, we dealt with it, riders moved (kicking and screaming) to digital. Someday that will go away and we'll deal with it.

In my opinion, it's not that rallymasters haven't caught up with technology - it's that the technology available doesn't meet our standards for reliability. We don't require photos just because we like looking at 50 identical photos of a statue of a half-naked fireman. The purpose of the photo (or receipt, or purchase, or phone call) is to prove that the rider actually went to the bonus. (Believe it or not, there have been riders who didn't go to the bonuses they claimed they did). We want riders to be able to leave the bonus location knowing that they successfully got whatever proof was required to prove they were there. If it's a photo, the rider can look at the photo (Polaroid or digital) and see that the bonus is in the photo and the rally flag is visible. If it's a receipt, the rider can look at the receipt and make sure all the required information is printed on it. Done, bagged. After that, if the rider loses the photo or the receipt or the camera, that's on the rider.

We often send riders to places without cell phone coverage or with marginal coverage or where there might be coverage from one carrier but not all four. So cell phones can't be guaranteed to provide real-time upload of whatever the bonus verification might be (photo or GPS ping). With a SPOT, you can push a button and send a message, but SPOT doesn't give direct feedback that the message got through.

Yes, you can queue an email so it gets sent when you get into cell phone coverage, or you can upload your cell phone photos to the cloud or to a server when you get to the wifi at the checkpoint, or you can set up your SPOT to send a text to your phone when a message is received to provide some feedback. And there is a risk that it won't work. If it doesn't work, the failure is on the rallymasters because that's the system we told the riders to use. So until that high-tech method is as reliable as having a photo in your hand or on an SD card, we won't require riders to depend on it.

The debate over memory card formats is bad enough, do we want to get into Verizon vs. AT&T vs. T-Mo vs. Sprint vs. Ting vs. Tracfone vs. postpaid vs. prepaid and what carrier roams on what other carriers and whether riders need to have data roaming or Canada roaming or even international service on their plans?
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#32
The nikkon coolpix S3700 will be fine. Free for safety points is a good thing too. :)

I have used a couple of lower end Nikon Coolpix cameras for rally pictures for years w/o issue. Put it in an inside pocket or use a ziploc bag if weather is questionable. During the '13 IBR, I had my primary Coolpix, (L18), die from heavy rain in Ohio because I had it in an outside pocket of my "water resistant" Klim jacket and not in a ziploc bag. I finished the rally with my backup coolpix, (L20), and was more careful. After the rally I replaced the screen with a Chinese screen off ebay and it worked fine for several more years.

I scored a waterproof Nikon AW110 in a post rally raffle and now use that. The AW110 is still around, though it's not the current model and can be had a bit cheaper. The L18/L20 cameras used AA batteries, the S3700 and AW110 use proprietary lithium batteries, but as has been said, modern lithium batteries last a lot longer now and would easily last thru an IBR w/o issue. Having a back up battery or charger along, just in case, is a Good Idea™.
 

Lisa

Staff member
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#33
In my opinion, it's not that rallymasters haven't caught up with technology - it's that the technology available doesn't meet our standards for reliability. We don't require photos just because we like looking at 50 identical photos of a statue of a half-naked fireman.
Wait - you have photos of a half naked fireman statue? Erbes is holding out on me!!!
 
#35
Lot's of great points here, and not a small amount of over-thinking.

If you are a photographer, who likes to create images, then pack your fancy Canon or Nikon and use it for taking that great shot.

If you are Rallying, and wanting to keep the wheels turning, many, many small, cheap digital cameras are perfectly fine. Get two. AA batteries, a supply of SD Cards and if your tankbag suffers from shock and vibration, get a different motorcycle.

Learn how to use them in the dark, and especially learn what the "Night Portrait" setting does on Nikon Coolpix cameras. It flashes to expose the foreground (bike and flag), then the shutter stays open to get the background (bonus object). Also learn how your camera behaves in poor light with the flash ON or the flash OFF

Here are two shots of a Daylight Only bonus. Both would have been allowed but the second one is the shot that gives the scorer the easier time. Light was failing badly. First shot is with the flash ON, second is with it OFF: