rally question

Farkleit

Premier Member
#1
Good on ya guys.
Now if we only knew exactly what happens in one of these Ralliez wud b good. I mean Sat nite we heard that they do 1000mile a day for 11 days. Yet can spend 3 or 4 hours in a spot getting points pieces. Then still have to get checked in.
So in Aussie. We would be doing 1600klm per day. Given our roads limits etc. If we take a good run down a freeway its 110 max. Ya with me still.... thats around 18 hours riding time all going well. Add fuel stops and if you then spent 4 hours looking plus checkin whetes da sleeping. We all know its about being safe. Ya cant go days on end with no sleep and stay safe?
Help me understand how it all works please
 

Ziggy

Just Another Rider
Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#2
Good on ya guys.
Now if we only knew exactly what happens in one of these Ralliez wud b good. I mean Sat nite we heard that they do 1000mile a day for 11 days. Yet can spend 3 or 4 hours in a spot getting points pieces. Then still have to get checked in.
So in Aussie. We would be doing 1600klm per day. Given our roads limits etc. If we take a good run down a freeway its 110 max. Ya with me still.... thats around 18 hours riding time all going well. Add fuel stops and if you then spent 4 hours looking plus checkin whetes da sleeping. We all know its about being safe. Ya cant go days on end with no sleep and stay safe?
Help me understand how it all works please
Planning and Practice Knowing your limits which sets the route/distance. Time on the road to your limit until you need the full rest period..
Yes it's harder in Australia than most countries due to Roo's, goats, cattle etc but this has to be taken into consideration when doing Multi-day rides which involve 1600k / 2000k day's.

Big advantage ... Swag - it .. Dongas and then the motels for the good rest days are all over the country and cheap.

Big thing being safe is knowing your limits and planning to them.

Hope this helps and I'm positive lot's of other riders have great advice that they have done ... NOT theory
 

kwaka

Premier Member
#3
Good on ya guys.
Now if we only knew exactly what happens in one of these Ralliez wud b good. I mean Sat nite we heard that they do 1000mile a day for 11 days. Yet can spend 3 or 4 hours in a spot getting points pieces. Then still have to get checked in.
So in Aussie. We would be doing 1600klm per day. Given our roads limits etc. If we take a good run down a freeway its 110 max. Ya with me still.... thats around 18 hours riding time all going well. Add fuel stops and if you then spent 4 hours looking plus checkin whetes da sleeping. We all know its about being safe. Ya cant go days on end with no sleep and stay safe?
Help me understand how it all works please
Ah Grasshopper. So you've never participated in a rally?
Do not be put off by the 11 day, 1000 mile per day IBR. That is one very special, extreme rally.
I too was like that once but you know what, I've never had so much fun riding a bike and, I've rallied solo and as a 2up team.

As Ziggy has mentioned, it is all about knowing one's strengths and weaknesses. If you are worried about staying safe, know this, the Rally Master will enforce rest period/s with non-compliance meaning a huge loss of points or more likely, a DNF status. That doesn't absolve you from staying safe either.
Rally Masters have our safety front and foremost at all times. They also want us to be a finisher.

Enter a rally with the objective being to have fun and to be a finisher. I'd rather come last than be a DNF or worse.
A rally can have any number of themes and/or objectives. It can be a 12 hour, 24 hour, 36 hour or any combination of hours and days duration in length. It could have a minimum kilometre distance or minimum points requirement or a combination of both, or any number of scenarios to be classfied as a finisher. E.g. you may be given a ceramic mug at the start of the rally and you must end the rally with the mug unbroken and still in your possession to be classed as a finisher.

Generally, photos need to be taken, so a waterproof camera would be advantagous. So too, knowing how to use said camera. Having a backup camera and battery pack isn't a bad idea either.
A "rally flag" to denote the rider or 2up team is generally provided and must be seen in all photos, unless the rally pack tells you otherwise.

Bonus locations could be day only or night only, so knowing how to take a pic of a reflective sign at night would be advantagous.
One thing that is probably a constanst is that there is no way that each and every bonus location can be reached in the given timeframe of the rally. Yep, not even in the great IBR.

The possibilities are endless and so is the fun and to make things even more interesting, ALL Rally Masters are supremely cunning, totally devious and can, and probably will, throw a "Curve Ball" into the mix at any point in time. Yes, they can even change any number of stipulations or rules just because they can. The Rally Master has the final say and totally at his or her discretion. All part of the fun.
The trick for the rally rider is to try and get into the mind set of the Rally Master to unearth which is the best route to take so as to gain the best possible outcome in the time period given.

Think along the lines of solving the time/distance equation for when we set off on an IBA length ride but with a few added tasks to do along the way. Rallying is fun, is a challenge, will test your little grey cells and a is great test of character. Then, when it's all over and the pressure's off, there's the Banquet and all the revelry and comradarie that goes with it. It's here when we can tell the Rally Master just what we think of them. I highly recommend entering and having a crack.
 

OX-34

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#4
Good on ya guys.
Now if we only knew exactly what happens in one of these Ralliez wud b good. I mean Sat nite we heard that they do 1000mile a day for 11 days. Yet can spend 3 or 4 hours in a spot getting points pieces. Then still have to get checked in.
So in Aussie. We would be doing 1600klm per day. Given our roads limits etc. If we take a good run down a freeway its 110 max. Ya with me still.... thats around 18 hours riding time all going well. Add fuel stops and if you then spent 4 hours looking plus checkin whetes da sleeping. We all know its about being safe. Ya cant go days on end with no sleep and stay safe?
Help me understand how it all works please
Ok, I'll have a turn to address a couple of your points because you've made a couple of wrong assumptions. Just like when you mentioned your 1600km day ride to your workmates last week they said you must be crazy and bleated on about you must be riding around all day at 160km/h. You're now assuming the same craziness for multi-day rides by experienced riders in your own LD world :

A) Brian the 11 days of 1000mile rally that Cuddles refers to is ONLY the Iron Butt Rally, based in USA and to a lesser extent Canada. Nobody is yet suggesting that an upcoming Aussie rally will be that extreme, so the 110km/h in your calculations does not apply as the speed limits for much of USA are higher.

B) The 3 or 4 hours Cuddles referred to was specifically at the Henry Ford Museum. That was just one 'bonus location' out of more than 200 available. Riders don't spend 3-4 hours per day at the others, they're usually under 5 minutes a pop.

C) Check-ins are every few days, not every day. They vary with each IBR, but there may be 2,3 or 4 check-ins during the 11 days.

D) Kwaka addressed this, but just to re-iterate there are very high points allocated to each 'Rest bonus' during the rally. Just like say taking a photo of a helicopter in a field may get you 500 points, a sleep in a hotel for 6 hours may get you 5,000 points - much more than could ever be earned riding around in the dark. Missing a rest bonus will destroy a rider's point score. Some rallies make the 'rest bonus' compulsory so you DNF if you don't rest, others the rider does not only get zero points for missing the rest bonus, they LOSE penalty points. The Rally Masters want you to rest. They are all LD riders and know you will be safer and ride more distance and see more bonus locations that they want you to see by stopping rather than falling off.

E) Fuel stops and bonus location stops need to be efficient. Many or most rally riders practice such stops. Having a few fast fuel stops per day (remember that in the IBR most riders are running at least 40 litres of fuel) and cutting a few wasted minutes from each photo stop adds an enormous amount of time that can be spent riding or better yet, sleeping and getting paid high points for lying down.


There will be Aussie rally opportunities for you over the next couple of years. Have a crack at one and join the fun.
In the meantime keep riding the big days, and just for fun and the challenge, ride interesting routes or invent your own 'theme' for a 1600k and you'll get more of a sense or what the rallies are about.
 

Kimmie

Well-Known Member
#6
All great and valid views Kwaka & Ox - Thank you!

I have participated in 2x small rallies here over a weekend (each one) and have DNF'd on both.
Why?
The first was consecutive incidents that had me in NO mindset to continue in a competitive manner. I still road around and took some photo's but didn't submit my entry. Was it a failure? well not in my eyes. I learned some valuable lessons and wasn't viewed any lesser than a rider that finished....cos I made it back SAFELY!!

The 2nd was my own doing. Mindset as has been pointed out plays a huge part in ones ability to tackle these rides. I started out ok, but when I got the rally pack...well, it was like sitting a final exam at school and I went blind. Couldn't see the forest for the trees (don't actually think I saw the trees either). And started the rally - unhappy and unsure of what I was doing.

Practice using the tools of your choice to attempt these and the pressure which comes along with it. If you can overcome these, you have a good chance of cracking being a finisher.

Just my 2c.
 

Farkleit

Premier Member
#7
Ok, I'll have a turn to address a couple of your points because you've made a couple of wrong assumptions. Just like when you mentioned your 1600km day ride to your workmates last week they said you must be crazy and bleated on about you must be riding around all day at 160km/h. You're now assuming the same craziness for multi-day rides by experienced riders in your own LD world :

A) Brian the 11 days of 1000mile rally that Cuddles refers to is ONLY the Iron Butt Rally, based in USA and to a lesser extent Canada. Nobody is yet suggesting that an upcoming Aussie rally will be that extreme, so the 110km/h in your calculations does not apply as the speed limits for much of USA are higher.

B) The 3 or 4 hours Cuddles referred to was specifically at the Henry Ford Museum. That was just one 'bonus location' out of more than 200 available. Riders don't spend 3-4 hours per day at the others, they're usually under 5 minutes a pop.

C) Check-ins are every few days, not every day. They vary with each IBR, but there may be 2,3 or 4 check-ins during the 11 days.

D) Kwaka addressed this, but just to re-iterate there are very high points allocated to each 'Rest bonus' during the rally. Just like say taking a photo of a helicopter in a field may get you 500 points, a sleep in a hotel for 6 hours may get you 5,000 points - much more than could ever be earned riding around in the dark. Missing a rest bonus will destroy a rider's point score. Some rallies make the 'rest bonus' compulsory so you DNF if you don't rest, others the rider does not only get zero points for missing the rest bonus, they LOSE penalty points. The Rally Masters want you to rest. They are all LD riders and know you will be safer and ride more distance and see more bonus locations that they want you to see by stopping rather than falling off.

E) Fuel stops and bonus location stops need to be efficient. Many or most rally riders practice such stops. Having a few fast fuel stops per day (remember that in the IBR most riders are running at least 40 litres of fuel) and cutting a few wasted minutes from each photo stop adds an enormous amount of time that can be spent riding or better yet, sleeping and getting paid high points for lying down.


There will be Aussie rally opportunities for you over the next couple of years. Have a crack at one and join the fun.
In the meantime keep riding the big days, and just for fun and the challenge, ride interesting routes or invent your own 'theme' for a 1600k and you'll get more of a sense or what the rallies are about.
Thanks Kwaka and OX for sorting out a lot of what if's. i didn't realize there are points for sleeping..... lol. i was not just asking for myself as I'm sure there are a plenty that don't understand this world. Im happy to just crack at a SS or or something better at this stage, but each to their own
I picked up a few tips over the weekend from some brief chats but came away from the rally presentation with no clue as to actually happens apart from get a big bike with lots of fuel and ride all over the place.... neva mind all is good and thanks again.
 

Cuddles

IBR Finisher
#12
Good on ya guys.
Now if we only knew exactly what happens in one of these Ralliez wud b good. I mean Sat nite we heard that they do 1000mile a day for 11 days. Yet can spend 3 or 4 hours in a spot getting points pieces. Then still have to get checked in.
So in Aussie. We would be doing 1600klm per day. Given our roads limits etc. If we take a good run down a freeway its 110 max. Ya with me still.... thats around 18 hours riding time all going well. Add fuel stops and if you then spent 4 hours looking plus checkin whetes da sleeping. We all know its about being safe. Ya cant go days on end with no sleep and stay safe?
Help me understand how it all works please
HI Farkleit. I think the others have answered you concerns very well. I'd just like to clarify something though as I might have mislead you somehow regarding the 11 days 11 thousand miles concept for the IBR.
In the two IBR I have done there was no minimum mileage requirement to be a finisher. The 2011 rally required you to ride through the all 48 contiguous states of the USA to finish. In the notes they suggested that would add up to about 8,500 odd miles for a really efficient route. Still, if you can find a away to do it in less distance then knock you're self out as they say over there. What I said during my talk at the muster was that to be a reasonably well scoring finisher, you need to be capable of keeping to about 11 thousand miles over the 11 days. In fact the big dogs did significantly more than that. Some around 13 thousand miles.
So what I was kind of saying to people was that you should really take a good look at your distance covering ability if you are thinking about doing an IBR. Work towards building up to a thousand miles a day and repeating that day after day. Only so that you can do it when you get there.

Finishing status in rallies can take various forms. Sometimes a minimum distance is specified, sometimes a minimum number of points. That can be expressed as a set number or a percentage of the highest point scorer. But what ever method the rally master sets as "finisher" status, it will generally focus around the " thousand mile a day" concept that is the backbone of the IBA.

I think you might have done what I did a few times when I was in the early days of looking at doing rallies and heard " a thousand miles" and "4 hours at one bonus" and put the tow together. I'd have to look at my records but I can tell you I very much doubt that Annette and I covered a thousand miles the day we visited the Henry Ford Museum. MOst bonuses only too 2 minutes. But what we might have done is 1200 miles the day before and or after visiting the HF Museum and it averaged out.

Hope that helps a bit towards explaining how it works.

Cheers
Cuddles.
 

Gatey

Premier Member
#13
Got to love this sort of discussion because once you get the chance to read the logic used by the big dogs it starts to open the doors.
Tacking one or two very long days back to back is not like doing your normal SS1600 BUT if your feeling ok about one ss1600 last weekend and your up for another a week or two latter and it works then pulling on say 1700k day/leg and following it up after your snooze bonus with say another 1300k then your beginning to see that a two day rally might well be within your stamina. And its not always just about the big miles. The answer might be on the last page.
 

Gatey

Premier Member
#15
You could also go looking for "the swing bridge that cancels out all the excess mileage points".

Now we need to get down your way and get a new Shoei lid Shane. Soon man. Soon.
 
#16
It also needs to be remembered that the slogan " 11000 miles in 11 days " is just that. a slogan.
However i do think history will show that at least one IBR has been won with under 11000 miles recorded. I do stand to be corrected though.
 

Ignacio

IBR Finisher
#17
However i do think history will show that at least one IBR has been won with under 11000 miles recorded. I do stand to be corrected though.
Not in my memory or review of the years back through 1997 anyway, but 2015 was VERY close with the winner at 11,087 miles and 3rd place at 10,364. There are a variety of trends going on including: Mileage to be a winner dropping over the years, at least several years that #2 was a high-mileage run and #1 was an obviously less-mileage run (2015 fits the bill tidily), and also some very well placing riders but obviously fewer miles (i.e. Tom Loftus #12 at 9500 miles or Alan Barbic #8 at 9800 miles).

In other words, "Ride smarter, not harder" is being increasingly rewarded and targeted by the puzzle-makers.