What type of Rally do you want

Johng

Premier Member
#1
A lot was discussed at the Dalby Muster about rallies and a lot of good points were raised.
I thought i would start this thread to discuss ideas further.
So to get things started i have done ONE!! rally so i am not talking from any great base of rally participation but what i can say is i was not interested in the rally thing as i thought it was going to be to difficult and only for experienced rally riders. Iam not sure how i got roped into doing the Clint & Charleen Lovell QLD rally over 24 hours with a mandatory sleep/ built into it. I completed the rally.

What did i learn

1. The duration of time and distance was great i did not have to think about it to much as it was 1000km in 24 PLUS it was local i did not need to ride hours to the start point.
2. It was not difficult but it made you think and plan and fun to do it was a challenge
3. As with everything like this there were some tricks built in but not too many to make you disheartened
4. As it was short in distance it gave me more time to concentrate on the planning and mapping and boy that was a learning experience
5. The planning that Clint and team put into it, was enormous. Great Job !!!!

I think to get riders interested small steps are needed to build confidence that you can actually do it than have some rallies that are longer and more complex.
I do not see myself doing an IronButt rally so i have no desire to build myself to a rally machine. We need to be careful that we do not make the first ones as difficult as that or we will drive people away. In this day and age where time is precious with family, work, and competing pressure it needs to be enjoyable.
These are just my thoughts to add and hopefully get some discussion happening around the topic.
Would I do not again YES

Johng
 
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kwaka

Premier Member
#2
From my post here: Dalby Muster
Lots in the pipeline for development especially the rally format.
I'd like to echo what Cuddles said about participants and that is, the need for more of them. If you have never tried or think its just nuts or too hard or I'll never be any good, or it's not for me or what-bloody-ever, think again. Remember, its not about winning or losing, its about being part of something bigger, something that is huge fun (yes, I've done a few both solo and as a 2up team), it is only as challenging as you make it, it is a test of character and resolve (but isn't any LD ride like that?) and rallying is something that the ensuing camaraderie creates, is life long. You'll laugh at other peoples mistakes, we'll laugh at yours and in the end we all have a great time filled with belly aches, fun times and the urge to do it all again. Go on, have a crack, you know you want to.

Just thinking out loud. This may be a longer term proposition, or not. Perhaps we could create an "invitational" rally? Open to all IBA members across the globe. A niche biennial event.
This could incorporate several rallys into the event. An 8hr, 12hr, 24hr, 36hr, 5 days, etc to appeal to a larger audience. For example, the 8hr would start 8hrs before the close of the 5 days on so on.

Whatever shape this beast takes, it will be fun!
 

Gatey

Premier Member
#4
I've done one bike rally.
I did enjoy it greatly.
What I learned about making a good rally was it does not always need to be about ridding the furthest...
It does need to be about making the entrants think.
The one I did had entrants starting from their own region/home then finished at a known location.
It was 36 hours only.
And it had a maximum distance and a minimum distance required to be classed as a finisher.
From memory only two riders left before the evening meal at the finish location.
Most left Sunday morning and only one or two needed Monday to find home.
If you look at the group then 16 or so went and played together. 4 needed an extra days travel to get home so days off impact is very small relative to the numbers.
I guess as we stand just now in Australia as potential rally riders then maybe some parts of my post might be of help.
Ha I've no idea.
 

Nev..

#44764
Premier Member
#5
I've done a few of the rallies organised within FarRiders. As the organiser was qld based, most were mid-northern nsw centric, which didn't deter me from entering because I was/am fortunate enough to be able to take days off work when required, however personally, I'd like to participate in more local rallies.

Most left Sunday morning and only one or two needed Monday to find home.
If you look at the group then 16 or so went and played together. 4 needed an extra days travel to get home so days off impact is very small relative to the numbers.
True Gatey, but you must consider that the overall number of entries and where those people came from would have been to some extent skewed by people's ability to participate based on the start/finish location. How many other riders from Melbourne or Adelaide might have participated if it wasn't over 1000km to get home on the Sunday? On that particular rally I was one of the people who took a circuitous route home over two days, but I also left home on the Thursday afternoon (as did I think all 5 Victorian entries who took part) to be at my start location fresh on the Friday morning, so it did cost me 2 1/2 days off work, and 4 nights accommodation away from home which is a luxury not everyone who might want to participate can afford (not to mention the additional domestic credits which might be required).
 

Gatey

Premier Member
#6
My point exactly Nev. The fall out due to extra days was limited and my post is based on the relative numbers whom attended.
Like you at that time my time was my own and Ill add my cash flow was similar to a third would state without Unicef.
Hence my preference to a local to the entrant start at least regardless of finish location. That finish location needs to be posted for that event at the get-go.
Everything about Rally's is always and forever going to be " skewed by peoples ability to participate based on"....hundreds of outside reasons not too.
Hell's bells if you look at us as a mob then you can see but 10 Australians whom have ever participated and finished in the IBR.( please correct that number if its too low). Why? because the start and finish was some other place and they then chose to do it.
Domestic credits are overrated too.

Worthy of consideration regards that particular rally we both speak of was a penalty for maxing out the K's so its no surprise that those who rumbled that factor in the prelim made miles up the page to a suitable start location. That max millage was from memory very shallow like around 1300k. So its not a surprise that contestant with say a 800ks crater rim would see the advantages to reduce that. Victorians included Nev. Follow this line of thinking for a bit.
A start from say Sheperton or Albury would have in that rally seen all and most desirable waypoints and bonus locations covered by a simple northing route. From Melbourne to Albury via the Hume 326ks or 3Hrs 25minutes. Thats the transport to a good start point and wriggle room. Or Melbourne to Gunnedah ( the posted finish location) 1093K say 11 hours direct ad pics and the rest bonus 15 hours. Maxing the rest bonus would put that at 22hrs With a big rest time off the bike https://goo.gl/maps/BZn84CcBehz

Not everyone is ever going to be able to participate. Not everyone's going to have time and some or plenty will have to ride further than some others.
With that issue in mind its probably better that more than one rally take place in a year for diversity of location...north south east or west to make the game playable for more and do-ability across the membership and that the rally's not be assigned a number but only ever named so each and every rally be an individual memorable event. Say for example " The IBA Snowy Toes Rally" or such. Not a numbers gathering game .
Just my two cents worth Cheers
 

Brookester

Premier Member
#7
LD Rally Thoughts
So I raised the question of having an annual rally, or at least having some form of Rally on a regular basis at the Muster in Dalby.
Well after some thought, a dangerous thing for me, and some discussions with others from within the Rally scene, and after the input at the Muster, I have come up with an idea (Really dangerous territory if I’m having ideas).
Now I realise we can never please everyone and not everyone will be able to or willing to participate but this is after all just an idea and I am happy to put in as much as I can to see it succeed, but most definitely cannot do it alone, and it would really not be worth the effort for anything under 20 riders, that’s just the way it is….and YES there will have to be some costs involved from participants!
I appreciate fully people have work and other commitments in life, so it is up to each individual to determine if they are able to attend on the weekend in question. I have given thoughts to things like a long weekend, but then venues and prices and traffic become an issue too difficult to overcome. By making the start early on a Friday allows for only 1 day off work as the finish location will be for us lot an easy 600-1000kms from most major east coast cities for the ride home Sunday.
I would also like for it to occur either Oct/Nov or Mar/Apr with the Oct/Nov being preferred. These are times of less temperature extremes usually. The Mar/Apr option would need serious consideration if it could be part of the Annual Muster ride-in or need to be a totally separate event???
So the proposal:
A 33 hour Rally (Theme yet to be determined).
To finish at a yet to be named location on a Saturday at 12 noon.
Earliest possible start time to be 03:00am Friday preceding.
90 minute penalty window before time barred DNF. Penalty window broken into 6 x 15 minute periods. 6% cumulative point deduction for each 15 minute period to maximum deduction of 36% of total points.
NO MINIMUM POINTS TO BE CLASSIFIED A FINISHER.
MANDATORY’S TO BE CLASSIFIED A FINISHER:

Rally can be started from any point chosen by rider but must not be within 800kms of finish destination by road (Google map reference).
Minimum distance requirement is 1625kms in a 24 hour period of the total 33 hour rally
Maximum distance allowed in total 33 hours is 2000kms (This is a rally-master planning and routing twist – Excess mileage penalty of 1% per km over up to maximum 20kms or 20% deducted from total points, 2021kms = DNF)
Mandatory bonus points valued rest period of minimum 4 hours between hour mark +10 and hour mark +24 of the 33 hour rally period. You may take more rest if you need to but will not be scored for it. Full bonus points for 1 x 4 hour rest period in time window. 50% bonus point deduction if 4 hours taken in any other format (e.g. 2 x 2hour; 1 x3hour & 1x1hour etc.).
Failure to have mandatory 4 hours of rest within time window = DNF
I am more than happy to work in consultation with others to develop this in to a goer, however due to recent employment challenges for me I may need some help. I do have a sort of idea for a theme, and for a really good point scoring curveball that I know is possible, but that only 1 or 2 may take on, and NO it does not involve dirt riding.
So lets see if this can be done..….thoughts and ideas are truly welcomed. Cheers, Brookester.
 

kwaka

Premier Member
#8
Great ideas there Brookester. I'm sure you'll have/get plenty of assistance. Getting participants is the key to any successful rally (see my Disclaimer below).

More first thoughts...

I am assuming you've never been a Rally Bastard Master before?

Baby steps first I think would be the way to attract the largest number of members and those who've never had a go. As much as I'd like a longer rally, I'd suggest an 8 or 12hr rally held on a Sat or Sun to kick off with. Start and finish in one's hometown. See how it pans out and is received. More than one per year too helping to gauge the memberships' response and the desire for the longer format.

The shorter format will help you hone your Rally Master skills too, find out what does and doesn't work . KISS to start with and buildup to the complexity in each ensuing rally.

Disclaimer: Thread Hijack.

I've said this to our current Rally Masters before but I'll paraphrase here.

Liz and I were geared up to participate in the last two Rally they held in Taree. For us, it is a big commitment to lose two days in the transport legs there and back, plus the associated additional costs on top of the rally proper.
For different reasons we bailed out of both rallys and to this day, whenever I think about that I have a huge pang of hurt. Not only because we couldn't participate (I look forward to the post rally camaraderie just as much if not more so than the rally itself) but also the fact that I/we have let the Rally Masters down. I am acutely aware of the time and effort they put in to create not only a successful rally, but also a rally that is both challenging and enjoyable for all participants.

Again, Liz and I apologize unreservedly to Annette and Shane.
 

Brookester

Premier Member
#9
Thanks Bazz...I have yet to put on the cap of Rally Master, however I am fortunate to have many who have within my circle of friends who not only offer good counsel but have also availed me with some previous rally books.
My concept is one to minimise burden on people in that 1 day off work, only really 1 nights accommodation expense (hopefully minimised by group booking)...theory being most in our community could take rest bonus at home and still make check-in???
The shorter style rally concept does interest me greatly but unfortunately with my limited IT resources I could not host one...but would definitely participate.
I really appreciate your feedback Bazz as it was looking like there was no interest...I may just put one together and see how it goes...
Cheers Brookester
 

Naughty Bart

Well-Known Member
#10
Morning all

I too have participated in a few of the Rallies run over the past few years and have greatly enjoyed these event

I too am a fan of the remote start location with a Group final destination/Check in

One that was really enjoyed was the Call to Arms Rally run by Annette and Shane with its Facebook, lead up challenges spaced over the preceding month or so ( to get everyone involved )
Something along these lines with a weekly Theme for Bonus locations leading into a 24/36 hour rally seemed to draw the numbers of participants
and got a team spirit going

also on the Last Training Rally there was the option to text in bonus Photos to the Rally Bastard Master and get a reply if it was correct
This i found to be a great Learning tool and confidence builder for those of us still on a learning curve

and Again i would be very keen to Help and/or participate in any upcoming events

Cheers Bart
 

Marls

Well-Known Member
#11
I have enjoyed participating in the rallies I have done. But I feel constricted with my dislike of planning. I like to ride, participate and the camaraderie at the finish. Ron has planned, or simplified my choices with one rally, and I planned the other. Of which I have no results!! I'm with Bazz on his response. Short first, medium next and long for those wanting practice to go overseas, or other. Cheers. Marls.
 

Daisy

Premier Member
#12
One that was really enjoyed was the Call to Arms Rally run by Annette and Shane with its Facebook, lead up challenges spaced over the preceding month or so ( to get everyone involved )
No. You can't use Farcebook and everyone in the same sentence. Not everyone has, or wants a farcebook. I'm also one of those introverts who likes to ride, enjoys the semi planning and having a purpose to ride to a particular location, but doesn't want to do dressups or talk like a pirate. Apologies to the thespians among us, but it turns me right off.
I did Mildthing's 'proof of concept' 48 hour rally in Tasmania a few years ago. I chose the average speed option, where points are multiplied for being closer or closest to the speed nominated before the start. That meant leapfrogging bonus locations and it was rather enjoyable, despite the weather, roadworks and wildlife trying to mess with the plan.
 

Tele

Premier Member
#13
I also enjoyed the Call to Arms Rally that was so well developed by Annette and Shane. I am sorry that Pirate Daisy was not there :D:D Or perhaps it was Lady Daisy or Wench Daisy given the theme of the event.

One thing I did appreciate was the time and effort that goes into every aspect of the Rally process. it may well be that our 'target' audience in Australia is relatively limited and we cannot really justify a level of complex preparation for a relatively few participants. Something straightforward and not-to-complex may make it more attractive for both the organisers and the participants. I like the concept of starting Friday morning and finishing around Saturday arvo with a dinner afterward.

And I'm more than happy to put my hand up to be an 'organiser' person under the guidance of more experienced personnel.

I have put forward a proposal at work for job-share part-time work arrangement on a 'transition to retirement' platform. It is a first for my employer and it will take some negotiating to get through. If it comes off, my hours drop from 50 per week to around half that. That would give me more time and enthusiasm for Rally planning. :D:D I would be more than happy to develop my skills in that regard.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this topic thus far