Balancing efficiency vs more entertaining roads?

Norman

Norman

Premier Member
IBA Member
So when I did my first SS1K, I had been combing the map for the single fastest 1000 miles I could (legally) burn through.

I kept looking at Great Falls, MT to Boulder City, UT down I-15 (13:52 per Google) and ended up (mostly as a result of the extra day to get to Great Falls from Seattle not aligning well with my vacation) simply riding Seattle -> I-90 to Butte -> I-15 to Park City, UT.
Google claims that's 14:23 without traffic, and it was in practice 15:39 with a half-hour lunch and a total of 7 gas stops including the fenceposts at roughly 15 minutes each.

I was a bit surprised to find that I've been riding _much_ harder, although shorter, days than a SS1K. I started at 4am, and when I picked up my final gas receipt, the light was just leaving the sky. I was ready to find my hotel because I'd done what I set out to do, but I wasn't exhausted, and I wasn't in excruciating pain, both of which I generally expect at the end of a >700 mile day. I could have done another couple hours if I had to, and found it trivial to do another 500 miles the next day before 4pm (although I chose to get off the clock because I ran into Speed Week by accident). I'm further pretty sure that for me, BB1500 is really my speed - I enjoy an occasional night ride, and the early start wasn't bad, but I'm pretty glare sensitive, so daylight improves matters immeasurably.

My question here is how do you balance efficient routing vs actually riding fun/scenic roads? I-90 though Idaho is proof that every road in northern Idaho is pretty, but otherwise the two roads were forgettable.

If I were simply trying to get from Seattle to Park City on a normal ride, the route would look something like this:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KNQVFE1xhgbLosEN8
tl;dc SR410 across the cascades, US12 to Lolo, Salmon/Challis maybe ride through Craters, 89 in Wyoming
I mean, it's all still at least major state routes, but it isn't major interstates.

With the minor problem that it's 1200 miles and more critically Google says 20 hours. I'm pretty sure I'm not capable of that in 24 hours, both hours and amount of exertion for those roads.

Where do you find the balance, when you're planning a high mile but not (necessarily) certificate ride? Come off a SS pace? Treat the fun roads like dessert but usually stay on interstates? How does that play out in the northeast? I recognize I'm entirely spoiled with the speed of minor highways accessible to me out west.
 
My routes have always depended on how much time I had to ride, or when I needed to be at point B. I can ride all day and barely do 200 miles sometimes. :D Other times it's more focused on getting from A to B in a timely manner, environment allowing, for a non cert ride. That usually means interstates. But I'm a funny guy, if I'm riding, I'm enjoying it. Doesn't matter if it's interstate or back road. I prefer twisty 3rd thru 5th gear roads along rivers in the trees, but don't live in the PacNorWet any more, so don't come across those here in MS.
 
Norman said:
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Where do you find the balance, when you're planning a high mile but not (necessarily) certificate ride? Come off a SS pace? Treat the fun roads like dessert but usually stay on interstates? How does that play out in the northeast? I recognize I'm entirely spoiled with the speed of minor highways accessible to me out west.
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I'm currently researching the Arizona X ride, after not being on a cert ride in a couple of years.

It'll be a longer-than-24 hour ride for me, and I've been on every road that's a part of this ride, so have enough familiarity to recognize that if I can get to Kingman (not quite at the third leg of the X...) on my first day, then six hours of sleep later, I'll be good.

So, 1100 miles in 18 or 19 hours? Not a bad day, I can accept that.
 
It really depends where you're riding. In the PNW and mountain west it's not difficult to put together a 1000+ mile day that is both efficient and interesting. Similar to Eric's comment, I have nothing against Interstates and can easily enjoy a freeway-heavy ride. (Except I-5; I hate I-5.) I just don't find it necessary around here.

I learned LD riding in events like the Cal24 Rally. These rallies were famous for sending us on epic twisties like CA-96, 36, the Sierra Nevada passes, Lost Coast, etc all in the course of 1000+ miles in <24 hours. It formed riding habits that are still with me 20+ years later. I ride the roads I want to ride to places I want to go. When I go on a motorcycle ride I want to ride my motorcycle.
 
I tend to alternate. Here in Ireland, you can ride a <17hour SS1000 on motorways, visiting the main cities, Cork, Dublin, Belfast, Waterford, Galway, Limerick etc. but you can also do a >20hour SS1000 ride around the perimeter of the island for a more twisty and coastal experience.
Depends on the weather, the season, the relative skills of a group of riders. Also, sometimes for a calendar-based ride (e.g. four seasons, Ides) you need to go on the particular day, even if the weather is poor, so maybe a shorter, less taxing route is better.
 
The primary purpose of riding a motorcycle is to have fun. If it's not fun, don't do it.
Some people like highways, others twisties. Some individuals choose highways or twisties depending on their mood that day.
The question is not efficiency vs entertainment, it's how much fun can I have while doing the thing I need to do?
 
I would never try an IBA route using side scenic roads I do not know. But have some I well know in mind for future rides

Googlemaps calculations are supposed to be based in average time of vehicles been using same road before, always limited to legal speed. This can be very tricky speaking about secondary roads and motorcycles.

I always keep a "decent" speed in high speed roads.

But use not to be so unflexible in small side roads. I am aware their speed limits are specially conservative, made with the idea to cover every kind of vehicles, including vans or new drivers. And count on average time needed to surpass heavy vehicles driving slow, a process that usually is much harder driving a car.

That means there are roads where my true speed, not necessarily dangerous, is clearly over the average, and thus very different to googlemaps estimation.

So I know stages where if you ask maps for time it will answer "120 minutes" but I know I can do with my bike in 90-100 without taking any special risk for me or other drivers. I could have the option to include those in an IBA ride.

But If I have never moved in that road... better not consider I can be faster than estimated.
 
That's a very though provoking question; one I have also been turning around in my brain as of late. My only cert rides thus far have been that "hop on the rural interstate and go" variety, and although I enjoyed them I've been thinking of trying something different for the next one(s). I guess I'm saying that I don't really have a good answer for you but I'll be following along and hoping to also benefit from the responses. Thanks for asking and wording it so well. :cool:
 
I intentionally drive as much of a scenic route as I can on my certified rides. The minimum average speed that you have to maintain for a Saddle Sore is only 41.7MPH/66.7KPH (No stops). If you have an aux tank and can drive the entire 350 mile/560 Kilometer maximum distance between stops and take 20 minute stops, your minimum average speed is 43.5MPH/69.6KPH. If you have a small tank and can only travel 125 miles/200 Kilometers between stops with the same 20 minutes per stops, your minimum average speed is 46.9MPH/75KPH.

Last week I rode SaddleSore with a friend (his third IBA ride ever) and with 7 fuel stops, we averaged 51MPH with a little more than 5 hours to spare.
 
First post New guy here and I have been thinking about a twisty route from Pittsburgh to Augusta Ga. I’m figuring 1/4-1/3 are higher speed roads….. but the other portion are the classics of twisty. I did some minor searching but I haven’t found any tales of SS1000 via this many Twisties.

I want name the run…… BLOOD, CASTLES, DRAGONS and DEATH by 1000 twists

Gas station to Mr Roger statue at Pgh point
Pgh to Wv on highway ~
Rt250 from Whitehall WV to Staunton Va
Staunton to the BACK OF THE DRAGON
Little Switzerland
LS to TAIL OF THE DRAGON
TOTD to Blood Mountain
BM to castle near Helen Ga
HG to James Brown statue Augusta ga
JB to gas station
1035 miles on map 17hrs saddle time per goo goo + expected 2hrs for stops = loooong day


Question for the group??????
- has it been done )
- some of the sections seem slow ave time for sport bike
- does goo goo take into account any stops in its calculation of time
- what am I missing that I don’t know
- June? (Summer solstice)
- radar detector?
- anyone want to ride it with me?
- any other thoughts


I’ve done lots of 400+ days with my longest being 800
Current ride is Kaw 1000sx …. sport touring sportbike with cruise control and bags.
 
The Tail of the Dragon is particularly slow.

My recommendation for your first Saddlesore 1000 is to do a faster, more direct route. You really don't have a good feel for what 1,000 miles takes without doing it, and I would hate for you to either fail or feel as though you need to speed to make up for the slower sections.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 
And to add, it's very easy to calculate your average speed between fuel stops when you have a smaller range. If that is above the speed limits for that area in a very obvious way, like the Tail of the Dragon, the cert would likely be denied for speeding. People have had certs removed from the record, even after getting it verified.

On the fun side, you can name the ride anything you want for your own cert! It may never become a ride on the Big List, but it's still yours. :)

Remember that you need to document the corners where there are shorter routes to prove that you did take the route you say you did. That can add a significant amount of time if you need several extra ones for your route.

I have no idea if it's been done that route. Slow average times = traffic sometimes, that's why they are average. Don't expect to beat the Google time when you add in stops and documentation. Practice taking photos with your receipt and odo, under variying light conditions. It can be challenging with electronic gauges.

No, Google Maps does not account for any stops of any kind. That time is just the moving time w/o any stops.

Check the historical weather/temps for the areas you want to ride though. That will give you some idea. Remember the elevation changes.

Radar detector is your comfort issue. I see most LEOS before the radar detector goes off. And with laser, you don't get warning if they are pointing at you, only if you catch some splash when they are aiming at someone else. Unlikely on twisty roads.

You shouldn't speed to any degree on an IBA ride, and don't need to if you manage your stopped time well. Time off the bike is what kills most people's attempts, not their speed. You can't easily make up lost time w/o going stupid fast, which will get the cert denied. But, you can SAVE time by keeping your stops efficient and minimizing the time you lose stopped. The IBA has a nice list of things that help. The bike needs to be comfortable enough that you don't feel like you need to stop for anything other than gas and bio breaks.

I'll pass on riding it with you, but hey, thanks for the open offer. ;)

Other thoughts, there is more of a difference between 800 and 1000 miles than it seems like. That's potentially 4 hours depending on traffic, roads, conditions and your body's needs.

Plugging in your waypoints gives me this route of 1023 miles in 20 Hrs, 4 minutes w/o knowing your exact start and stop points. That's cutting it close when you add stops for gas, time to do documentation and anything else that happens during the ride. Not saying it can't be done safely, just my casual observation having done a bunch of LD rides and knowing how plans don't always work out as smooth as you hope they will.

 
Thanks for the great info. Definitely appreciated

.. I can’t see me doing 1000 miles of highway droning. . That gets old fast and I’m already old. I was hoping for ~60-65 mph ave overall (without stops). As you said I may going higher than the ave limit, but not exceptionally that much more . I have ridden most of those roads at one point and this would be tying them all together. The 50mph ave seems low based upon how I ride.

I think I may need to read some of those rules again.

Ps. The dragon may be slow-er but it is only 11 miles ( and 318 twists ;).
 
Erikpgh said:
Ps. The dragon may be slow-er but it is only 11 miles ( and 318 twists ;).
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But remember, the posted limit is only 30 mph on the TOD. And if you end up coming up on a crash with the road blocked, or a random semi truck that wandered down, etc. It's the weird unknowns that can sometimes kill a ride attempt. It's not about what speed you do. Smooth is fast. ;)

50 mph avg is a pretty common baseline for rally riding where you have to stop and collect bonus photos, get receipts, etc. From a planning standpoint, on bigger roads I can usually beat Google Maps times by a little when riding with or slightly above the speed of traffic flow. But it can quickly drop when you hit something unexpected like road construction or an accident.

Be cognizant of what your body is telling you as well and know that bailing so you can ride another day is sometimes the only right answer.
 
As you say, TOD is only 11 miles. So although the speed limit is low it should be possible to safely incorporate it into a SS1000. That said, it does offer another challenge level that might best be reserved for a second or subsequent cert ride.

Here's another strategy to consider: plan a ride that has you on interstates or major highways at night, but gets you to the interesting roads in daylight. I often leave my house at 2-3am and drone down I-5 for a few hours in the dark. That gets me to someplace interesting like CA-96 or WA-20 at sunrise, then I can spend a full day enjoying nice roads. I might end the day with an evening freeway drone to get home. If you're going to ride at night anyway, might as well do those miles on a boring but somewhat safer interstate.
 
So I did more calculating of times... I appreciate all of the feedback and this will definitely be a tough ride.
Just some notes of feedback.
If I'm doing 60-5mph ave (without the 15min per Stops) it = 17 hrs and with stops 18.5 very doable
if I'm doing google speeds which is 46 (without Stops) 43 mph ave with stops = 22 hrs and with stops 23+hrs ... not so doable.

I plan on doing the first 2 legs of the plan to get a feel for doing the whole distance which equates to ~ 300 miles out & 300 miles back home for a 600 mile day... Lets call it a IBA training ride that I have done a number of times. If I can get to the 300mile point at my expected speeds and time I will do the full 1000 otherwise I may plan a 2 day trip with more stops. If I do it I will hope for the best with the IBA review process if I do it.

I am also expecting first leg and last leg of the trip to be very dull-ish due to mostly interstate Highway or very long straight Georgia back roads. Two long legs and fun in the middle...

FYI...2021 Kaw Ninja 1000sx is the bike I will be riding, so will be good for both the Twisties and comfy on the highway drone.
 
EricV said:
Time off the bike is what kills most people's attempts, not their speed.
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Agreed, and most important. There is plenty of time and there is no real need to drive any faster than normal. Speed (effeciency) comes with practice. Keep in mind that the amount of time spent on a stop starts as soon as you start to slow down and stops once your back up to speed on the highway.

Don't over think it. I did a SS where I started at Deal Gap, rode the TOD, rode to the northern terminus of the Natchez Trace Parkway (55 Mph) and rode it to the southern terminus and then rode home, 2 up, pulling a trailer.

Whit Meza has a video of her first Ironbutt ride and a great follow up Lessons learned.
Amanda Zito, AKA "As the Magpie Flies" also has a great video of her first Ironbutt ride. She was accompanied on this ride by our one and only Kerri Miller who has quite a blog of her day to day dealings and observations of the rallies in which she has participated.

All these women have earned their mettal riding and provide great insights.
 
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