Dual GPS Setup

[XYZZY]

I've got a NTM (new to me) '18 FJR, and it came with dual Garmmin Zumo 396's.

I'm interested in best practices to get the most out of having dual units. What I've figured out so far is to only pair one to my phone, and have my routes and custom POI's on it and zoomed in to see the next intersection, etc. The second unit is zoomed out to a more regional view, but also with my custom POIs, with auto-zoom disabled so it stays regional. Is there an advantage of running navigation (following my plan) on both? If not, is there a compelling reason to have the second unit? Weather perhaps? Belts & Suspenders?

I've got a long way to go before I have mastered Basecamp, but I'm putting in the effort to learn it. I've read the NER tutorial, and watched some YouTube vids. But there is a lot to learn. I've created a few simple routes and followed them, and I'm attempting a SS1K this week, but really it's a pretty simple route too.

I know that many of you have discovered a tip or trick that helps you in similar situations, and I'd love to hear your "aha" moments. Turning off auto-zoom was my first aha moment.

 

[EricV]

It's not uncommon for rally riders to use two GPS units. Partly for simple back up reasons, partly as a time management tool. I kept one on the next checkpoint, the other for bonuses. It's a real gut check when you're turning away from the direction of the checkpoint to get a bonus and looking at the time the 2nd GPS is telling you it will take to get to the checkpoint... and you're already pushing your luck. Or more often, you can more easily determine if you really have the time for that out and back to an off route bonus or not.

I'm sure others have additional methods. You don't want both voices in your head, IMHO.

 

[Shawn K]

I run two nav units; a Garmin 396 and a Garmin Zumo XT. At the 2024 Heart of Texas Rally, I used the XT as my primary nav tool, with each day's worth of route pre-programmed into it from plans I made in Basecamp. I also had the same routes loaded into my 396, but I prefer to not run the 396 if possible because the lower memory and slower processor make the 396 less responsive, especially with a large multi-stop rally plan being run. So there's the redundancy aspect, just like @EricV said.

Additionally, I use my 396 for other supplementary purposes. The biggest one is that letting the 396 run free (i.e. no route) allows me to use the Look Ahead function to find fuel, food, etc., and to give me an ETA for a waypoint I might want to grab as an extra. So long as I don't ask too much of the 396, it's fine for that purpose. But then, on the final day of the rally, I had it in "homing pigeon" mode, where it's only purpose is to constantly recalculate my Time To Base (in this case, the hotel where the finish line was located). So as I went through my day, I had my XT running my competition route, but my 396 telling me the ETA back to the hotel. Since there was a penalty window for the event, the 396 served to let me know if I needed to bail out of my route plan at any time so that I didn't hit the penalty window.

Beyond that, the 396 handles rain far better than the XT because the 396 uses a resistive touchscreen, rather than the capacitive touchscreen of the XT. Capacitive touchscreens don't play well with water, and will start registering "ghost touches" from the raindrops. The 396 keeps plugging along without issue.

Having said all of that, both of them failed on me for a time during Heart of Texas (in exactly the same way, and at exactly the same time), so I ended up using my cell phone in the rain and putting lat/long's into Google Maps and going one point at a time by reading road signs. So the ability to not only have redundancy, but to also be able to do some old-fashioned navigating can't be understated. This year, for me, it was the difference between finishing and not finishing.

 

[EricV]

Just as a FWIW, when I crossed the Canadian border for something like the 10th time during the '13 IBR at the Ambassador Bridge, the nice customs agent asked me about 20 questions, starting with "Why do you have two GPS units?" The simple answer is the best one. "In case one breaks."

 

[RobG4]

I run two nav units; a Garmin 396 and a Garmin Zumo XT. At the 2024 Heart of Texas Rally, I used the XT as my primary nav tool, with each day's worth of route pre-programmed into it from plans I made in Basecamp. I also had the same routes loaded into my 396, but I prefer to not run the 396 if possible because the lower memory and slower processor make the 396 less responsive, especially with a large multi-stop rally plan being run. So there's the redundancy aspect, just like @EricV said.

Additionally, I use my 396 for other supplementary purposes. The biggest one is that letting the 396 run free (i.e. no route) allows me to use the Look Ahead function to find fuel, food, etc., and to give me an ETA for a waypoint I might want to grab as an extra. So long as I don't ask too much of the 396, it's fine for that purpose. But then, on the final day of the rally, I had it in "homing pigeon" mode, where it's only purpose is to constantly recalculate my Time To Base (in this case, the hotel where the finish line was located). So as I went through my day, I had my XT running my competition route, but my 396 telling me the ETA back to the hotel. Since there was a penalty window for the event, the 396 served to let me know if I needed to bail out of my route plan at any time so that I didn't hit the penalty window.

Beyond that, the 396 handles rain far better than the XT because the 396 uses a resistive touchscreen, rather than the capacitive touchscreen of the XT. Capacitive touchscreens don't play well with water, and will start registering "ghost touches" from the raindrops. The 396 keeps plugging along without issue.

Having said all of that, both of them failed on me for a time during Heart of Texas (in exactly the same way, and at exactly the same time), so I ended up using my cell phone in the rain and putting lat/long's into Google Maps and going one point at a time by reading road signs. So the ability to not only have redundancy, but to also be able to do some old-fashioned navigating can't be understated. This year, for me, it was the difference between finishing and not finishing.

Shawn, to avoid having to manually put Lat/Long into Google Maps in the future, use an app like POI Viewer that can load Google Maps for you. Just upload your finished .gpx file to it, and if you have to nav using Google Maps it's easy. You open POI viewer, touch the POI you want, then shoot it to Google Maps. Super easy.

 

[Shawn K]

Shawn, to avoid having to manually put Lat/Long into Google Maps in the future, use an app like POI Viewer that can load Google Maps for you. Just upload your finished .gpx file to it, and if you have to nav using Google Maps it's easy. You open POI viewer, touch the POI you want, then shoot it to Google Maps. Super easy.

I learned about that from one of the riders during the after party.

It's a learning process, for sure. This was only my 4th rally.

 

[RobG4]

I learned about that from one of the riders during the after party.

It's a learning process, for sure. This was only my 4th rally.

No doubt about the learning process. I've essentially given up on Garmin as my primary nav. The XT is good for "what if" scenarios and situational awareness, but Google Maps is my primary nav tool now. Worked very well during the IBR last year and the other rallies I've done since.

Interesting that you said both Garmins failed at the exact same time during HoT. I ran 2 XT's and my phone for the IBR, and one of my XT's failed in Southern Utah during Leg 3. Another rider's XT completely died in the exact same spot during Leg 2. Makes me wonder if there are GPS black holes out there, and not just areas of diminished reception.

 

[Shawn K]

@RobG4 - It was a failure mode that I've never seen before. For over 700 miles, both nav units started behaving the same faulty way. Instead of navigating along the roadways, it would have the same start and end points, but would inject dozens of arbitrary points along the way and then link them with straight lines (navigating "as the crow flies", as it were). But then, at around 8pm, I got to one particular way point (the "Texas Water Buoy" near Texas City), and then all of a sudden both units simultaneously started working correctly again.

It was so strange that the displayed errors were identical all day, the units failed at exactly the same time, and then they both started working correctly at the same time and in exactly the same place.

You must use iPhones. I can't find the app you described in Google Play Store, but I'm examining alternatives.

 

[Russ Black]

@Shawn K I use a Garmin Drive 6 in my truck and it acted very simular to what you described returning from an out of state trip earlier this year. It ended up being a faulty power cable as it has been functioning properly ever since.

 

[Shawn K]

@Shawn K I use a Garmin Drive 6 in my truck and it acted very simular to what you described returning from an out of state trip earlier this year. It ended up being a faulty power cable as it has been functioning properly ever since.

The more I deconstruct my experience, I think there was some sort of conflict or error with one particular waypoint - the "Texas Water Buoy"

Google Maps Link

For whatever reason, both of my nav units (running the same map updates with the same route info imported from Basecamp) seemed to think that the only way I could get from Tomball, TX to this location was to go all the way back to Port Arthur, then come back down SR-57 to Port Bolivar and take a nonexistent ferry across the bay to the end of Dike Rd. No matter what I did, I could not get them to recalculate through Texas City like they should have. Once I got to the end of Dike Rd. and turned around, they both woke up and decided, "Oh, you want us to NAVIGATE!", and then they started working correctly.

The lesson I learned was this: Always have a backup. And then have a backup for that backup. And if that fails, be ready to kick it Old School.

 

[XYZZY]

Thank you all for your posts... please keep them coming.

 

[Stephen!]

Shawn, to avoid having to manually put Lat/Long into Google Maps in the future, use an app like POI Viewer that can load Google Maps for you. Just upload your finished .gpx file to it, and if you have to nav using Google Maps it's easy. You open POI viewer, touch the POI you want, then shoot it to Google Maps. Super easy.

Part of my route planning process is to create a PDF with every available bonus listed and hyperlinks for each of them to both Google Maps and Waze, transfer the PDF to my phone, and when I want to navigate to a bonus, just tap the hyperlink for both and away we go. Between GM, Waze, and the 478, we usually get where we need to go.

 

[Stephen!]

How that ends up looking when I am done...

 

[rneal55555]

I have an Android Tablet and a couple Zumo's (XT & 595) on a Rally I plan in Basecamp and send it the to Zumo's export a GPX and the GPX get imported into Google MyMaps It's somewhat situational but in practice I'll have the 595 running the route to the finish/checkpoint and generally use the XT point to point, although that can change if I have an intervening point that is time critical i may make a short rout of a couple locations ending at the time critical one. The tablet pretty much always used point to point. I also usually have the Google running on my phone on the Handlebar but thats as much to hold the screen open as anything else. the map will be minimized and my audio app will be open. Usually I have more faith in Google directions and traffic but that's not always warranted, I can tell you when you take 321 out of Gatlinburg headed towards South Carolina when you get to a to intersection where 321 goes left and county 32 goes right when Google says go right and a zumo says go left go left. I followed Google and while it might have been a nice ride on a Sunday afternoon on the way to get Ice cream at 9 PM on day one of the IBR Thagt 21 miles of switchbacks and 2 miles of dirt thrown in for good measure was not the best route. All mapping programs have issues and you should examine the differences when they don't agree. I believe in redundancy hence two GPS's and two devices to run Google Maps. my phone and tablet are also on different carriers Verizon and T Mobile I have at time had to run the tablet hot spotted from my phone because it lost service and I could do it the other way as well. I have both and I use both but if I could have only one it would be a Garmin there are times when they are wonky but the vast majority of the time they just work independent of anything off the bike. Google is great but if something changes with out service or preloaded maps you have nothing.

 

[TXBootScoot]

@RobG4 - It was a failure mode that I've never seen before. For over 700 miles, both nav units started behaving the same faulty way. Instead of navigating along the roadways, it would have the same start and end points, but would inject dozens of arbitrary points along the way and then link them with straight lines (navigating "as the crow flies", as it were). But then, at around 8pm, I got to one particular way point (the "Texas Water Buoy" near Texas City), and then all of a sudden both units simultaneously started working correctly again.

It was so strange that the displayed errors were identical all day, the units failed at exactly the same time, and then they both started working correctly at the same time and in exactly the same place.

You must use iPhones. I can't find the app you described in Google Play Store, but I'm examining alternatives.

My Garmin did this on the HoT too. I had to completely kill the route and then start the route over from the next up POI to get it out of “crow mode”. It was very frustrating.

 

[Stephen!]

File a report:

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/contact/gps-problem-report

 

[XYZZY]

I have an Android Tablet and a couple Zumo's (XT & 595) on a Rally I plan in Basecamp and send it the to Zumo's export a GPX and the GPX get imported into Google MyMaps It's somewhat situational but in practice I'll have the 595 running the route to the finish/checkpoint and generally use the XT point to point, although that can change if I have an intervening point that is time critical i may make a short rout of a couple locations ending at the time critical one. The tablet pretty much always used point to point. I also usually have the Google running on my phone on the Handlebar but thats as much to hold the screen open as anything else. the map will be minimized and my audio app will be open. Usually I have more faith in Google directions and traffic but that's not always warranted, I can tell you when you take 321 out of Gatlinburg headed towards South Carolina when you get to a to intersection where 321 goes left and county 32 goes right when Google says go right and a zumo says go left go left. I followed Google and while it might have been a nice ride on a Sunday afternoon on the way to get Ice cream at 9 PM on day one of the IBR Thagt 21 miles of switchbacks and 2 miles of dirt thrown in for good measure was not the best route. All mapping programs have issues and you should examine the differences when they don't agree. I believe in redundancy hence two GPS's and two devices to run Google Maps. my phone and tablet are also on different carriers Verizon and T Mobile I have at time had to run the tablet hot spotted from my phone because it lost service and I could do it the other way as well. I have both and I use both but if I could have only one it would be a Garmin there are times when they are wonky but the vast majority of the time they just work independent of anything off the bike. Google is great but if something changes with out service or preloaded maps you have nothing.

Nice explanation. I think I'm a ways from your level, but it does reinforce my tendency to use AppleMaps in addition to Scenic, both on my iPhone, but different mapping engines. Sometimes I'll have a base route in Scenic, but it may have created an arbitrary waypoint that I want to ignore, and use the Tour of Honor app to pick a site that invokes Apple Maps. For that reason, I leave Apple Maps on the default voice, and Scenic on a Male/Australian voice so I know which one to ignore.

 

[Stephen!]

Piped into my earbuds:

Garmin 478 - Default English female voice
Google Maps - Default English female voice speaking street names
Waze - English (Australia) - Kylie
Tamara

Guess which channel has priority....?

 

[RobG4]

@RobG4 - It was a failure mode that I've never seen before. For over 700 miles, both nav units started behaving the same faulty way. Instead of navigating along the roadways, it would have the same start and end points, but would inject dozens of arbitrary points along the way and then link them with straight lines (navigating "as the crow flies", as it were). But then, at around 8pm, I got to one particular way point (the "Texas Water Buoy" near Texas City), and then all of a sudden both units simultaneously started working correctly again.

It was so strange that the displayed errors were identical all day, the units failed at exactly the same time, and then they both started working correctly at the same time and in exactly the same place.

You must use iPhones. I can't find the app you described in Google Play Store, but I'm examining alternatives.

Yep, that sounds like something may have corrupted your .gpx file for Texas Water Buoy, and both Garmins gave up.

I do run an iPhone, and POI Viewer is only available for IOS (I think). I bought a Tripltek Android tablet to replace one of my Garmins because it was rugged and a brilliantly bright screen, but I wound up returning it due to it's weight. And FYI, I will never do business with Tripltek again. Horrible customer service, and they ripped me for about $300.00 with my return of the item. Anyway, when I was looking for a similar POI Viewer app for Android, I came across GPX Viewer, and it was the closest in functionality that I could find. You could import your own .gpx files, it retained modified POI names, and you could send it to Google Maps.

 

[Shawn K]

Anyway, when I was looking for a similar POI Viewer app for Android, I came across GPX Viewer, and it was the closest in functionality that I could find. You could import your own .gpx files, it retained modified POI names, and you could send it to Google Maps

I recently downloaded POI2NAV from the Play Store, which seems to do a lot of what you described. The down side of it (that might be harsh) would seem to be that all it does is list waypoints and hotlink them individually.

What I wish is that Google would allow more than 10 waypoints in Google Maps.