Electric sled...the evolution and our expectations

[Gatey]

So Im looking at the electric all sorts thing. Transport, your house, workshop. Lights and factory is my most current issue.

But the bike thing I am watching.

This topic is not about the morality of electric and the environment after all we are happy to burn the petrol.

Im more interested in the development which may interest us in the long game or the commute.

Zero has is introducing the DSR/X. Figures available on ADV site.

It does pose some LDR IBA Far Roads windows of opportunity or opportunities to develop a space for these units. Much like scutters and posties .

Anyway lets see how this topic rolls

 

[tj189]

Interestingly, it has been done;
Iron Butt Terry Makes History By Riding Electric Zero Motorcycle 1,000 Miles In 24 Hours

 

[Dave28117]

not cost effective or realistic at this point to use battery power to do our type of riding. Range just isn't there. the big question is how long it will take technology to catch up with those extreme needs. Auxiliary battery packs instead of auxiliary fuel tanks? hmmmm.....

 

[Vlad]

A bloke I know has a Harley Live Wire. He uses it for transport everyday, somewhat better looking than the bike in Tj’s post. He gets an easy 250 k between charges if he can resist getting up it, which apparently is kinda difficult because it goes like the proverbial off a stick.
There is apparently another bloke riding one from Sydney to the Daintree at the moment, I believe he has a blog. I can think of worse ways to spend a couple of weeks

 

[Mightyhorse]

There should be a standard modular battery that can fit many bikes or vehicles. Pull up to a station swap it out and go. No waiting for charging.

 

[EricV]

Battery technology is progressing too. Ribbon batteries that charge in less time than it takes to refuel your auto exist, just in the experimental stage. The problem with charging that fast is heat, and safely dissipating it during the charging process. The bigger issues of where the electricity actually comes from also exist.

Lighter batteries with faster charging will probably be the solution before we get to hot swappable battery exchange points. Cost effective superconducting solar panels wouldn't hurt either.

In the current reality, pun intended, charging infrastructure that allows travel over distances is still building. It's possible to cross the US with an electric car w/o much difficulty now, but routes have to follow the main roads and care to know your range and the next charging station is important, along with the reality of time to charge and flexibility of different charging points and amperage maximums. I'm sure the Australian Outback will someday support electric vehicles, but probably not widely at this time?

 

[ACTCapo]

There should be a standard modular battery that can fit many bikes or vehicles. Pull up to a station swap it out and go. No waiting for charging.

Mobile phones might finally be moving to a consistent charger plug after how many years? I hope the bike manufacturers don’t take that long.

 

[Gatey]

I met a guy a couple of months back. In fact two guys driving two different Volvo cars both full sparky on their own different trips.
One unit was about 3 years older then the other.

One guy had left Brisbane. gone to ACT then Melbourne. Out to Ballarat Horsham Adelaide. Up to Broken Hill back to Armidale when I met him.
$49 on recharges and not much more than 30minutes most times during the travel days.

The other guy Townsville Melbourne via inland and back at Armidale about $70. With lots of faffing about Melbourne.

Both these guys I estimated early 60s and both commented how pleasant those short recharge stops had become.

 

[ACTCapo]

TeapotOne rode an electric bike around the UK. He had to stop and charge it 41 times, getting about 60 miles per charge on the freeways at 65mph. Still a long way from being practical.

https://www.facebook.com/TeapotOne

 

[ACTCapo]

 

[Shawn K]

Interestingly, it has been done;
Iron Butt Terry Makes History By Riding Electric Zero Motorcycle 1,000 Miles In 24 Hours

Much was chronicled on Craig Vetter's website about Terry's Zero. That was an extremely modified bike, nowhere near stock. Full teardrop-style bodywork, multiple high-amp chargers, batteries out the wazoo. If memory serves, it weighed in about the same as my Gold Wing.

Not downplaying his accomplishment, just noting the limitations of battery technology that the industry still struggles with.

 

[Motoproponent]

Terry's much storied accomplishment was in 2014. The tech has come a long way since then but it still has a long way to go. I have an Energica Experia. I've been averaging about 1000 miles a month between commuting and short one or two day trips. For a fun trip, 400 or 500 miles in a day are pretty do able. On average...ride for 2 hours (100-150 miles) charge for 35-40 minutes then rinse and repeat till you get to the hotel. It's pretty neat to be able to wake up with a "full tank" each morning if you're staying at a cheap 2 star motor lodge that will let you run a cord out the window of your room.

It's also a cool way to meet random people in random places as seeing a bike plugged in to a charger is still a novel sight. So far the farthest I've gone on one charge was about 160 miles. It was a relatively slow, twisty mountain road. The best conditions for range. The biggest frustration is managing the heat of the battery. Bikes don't really have the capacity to carry active thermal management (liquid cooling and resistance heating) so you have to rely on passive heat management. So when it's the nicest weather for riding (warm and clear) the battery stays too hot to support fast charging. Then the charge stops start to stretch out from 20-30 minutes to 90 minutes or more. Nothing is more frustrating than waiting for a thermally crippled battery to charge when all you can do is sit around and be aware of how slowly your bike is charging while your gas powered buddies are further down the road than you are.

 

[Stephen!]

It's also a cool way to meet random people in random places as seeing a bike plugged in to a charger is still a novel sight.

My 1976 GL1000 was plugged into a charger every evening. Otherwise I would have to kick start it the next morning.

 

[Firstpeke]

My expectation is that I will never own an electric bike that will cover the range I want/need in a time I consider acceptable.

I also expect that whilst a vehicle that can cover IBA type distances, in said acceptable time, may become available during my lifetime, I will not be able to afford the crippling cost of the price-tag attached to it..... or the insurance...

 

[Sportsterpaul]

Just a side note, in Detroit they have started construction on two short stretches of road that integrate electrical charging units that will allow you to recharge will driving above them. Quite an idea, eh? Now road conversion like this won’t be widespread, and likely confined to metropolitan areas but it is intriguing. And this forced march to electrical transportation still hasn’t answered two big questions for me. When you’re using power plants to get the electricity where is their power coming from.......
And additionally what will be the cost of storage for the depleted batteries? Just curious, rant over, carry on.
Keep it safe!

 

[EricV]

Ideas with road embedded power have been around since the '70's or earlier. The concepts at those times were much like overhead power for transit buses, but the thought was for interstate or inner/intra city cargo truck routes. A mainstream tax along with a user fee and subsidies were to pay for it.

Back then I don't think people thought about where the power was actually coming from, or environmental aspects. Part of the reasoning was to keep heavy trucks in dedicated paths, and remove that congestion for the rest of the road users.

 

[Dave28117]

Just a side note, in Detroit they have started construction on two short stretches of road that integrate electrical charging units that will allow you to recharge will driving above them. Quite an idea, eh? Now road conversion like this won’t be widespread, and likely confined to metropolitan areas but it is intriguing. And this forced march to electrical transportation still hasn’t answered two big questions for me. When you’re using power plants to get the electricity where is their power coming from.......
And additionally what will be the cost of storage for the depleted batteries? Just curious, rant over, carry on.
Keep it safe!

My third question is about the availability of materials to continue to manufacture the batteries and the environmental impacts of that activity. I personally think the electric approach will be a fad and there's going to be better technology that will quickly replace it due to the various challenges that exist.

 

[EricV]

Battery technology is changing quickly. There are a lot of different alternatives waiting for just the right new bit of the puzzle to take off. A few years ago one of the universities had developed a prototype ribbon battery for EVs. Think as wide as the car and full length. They could charge it to 100% in something un-godly like 5 minutes, but a byproduct of that was a high amount of heat requiring a cooling system and with too high a probability of an accident to be mainstream. Enough EVs burn down now with Li batteries. Some hotshot material sciences major will hopefully stumble upon the next needed bit some day soon. Or we'll collectively sort out room temp superconducting.

I don't think the US will ever see hydrogen vehicles for mainstream use. Too many infrastructure issues.

 

[Motoproponent]

Well, I made my first attempt at a SS1000 on my electric bike on Saturday.

https://new.spotwalla.com/trip/cf4d-16c6c7005-4604/view

It was unsuccessful. The bike, range, and charger availability weren't even a thing. The ride fell apart around the charging speed. The plan was legs that were about 100 miles with a relatively short charge stop. 100 miles would take about 14 KWH of energy ay ~65 mph. The bike has a charging capability of 24 kw, so putting that back in the battery should take around 35 minutes.

This is where the big difference between Terry's modified long distance special and the commercially available electric bikes right now is most noticeable. The 24kw charge rate equates to 75 amps of current. That kind of load generates heat that the battery pack has to dissipate. I hot fully charged battery starts to degrade so manufacturers need to combat that. With a a 6000 pound car you just have some active thermal management. some sort of liquid cooling or make the pack bigger and provide heatsinks and fans for more active cooling. My motorcycle limits the charge current to limit the heat in the pack in the first place. So the warmer the battery to lower the charge current. On my subsequent charging stops the charge current was 16, 14, and even 12 KW so the time to charge back up was upwards of an hour. It got a little better when the ambient temps got down in the 40's but by then I was already 2 hours behind the pace to complete 1000 miles in 24 hours.

Whatever can be done to decrease the charging stops, is the thing that is limiting electric bikes from participating in LD events like IBA Rallys and sanctioned rides.

 

[ACTCapo]

Swappable batteries could be the answer for LD riding, but the infrastructure required would be massive and I can’t see all bike manufacturers agreeing on a common system any time soon.