Joes IBR 2023

[biquer]

I'd had a good rally right up until the end. I had more than enough points to finish but my bike starting falling apart on day 8. It started overheating, losing coolant, sounding rough and boiling the clutch. About 4 hours from the finish I couldn't go on trying to negotiate the 90mph trucks on the New Jersey Turnpike with no clutch and a stalling, hobbling, seizing, boilng bike. Limping it along used up my time. The bike (2015 FJR1300) had 70,000 miles without a hiccup to the start of the rally. The only variable was that I had organised an oil change and new tyres from a local Pittsburgh honda dealer. I told him I wanted Yamalube fully synthetic but when I got there he said he was going to use honda fully synthetic instead and that it would be fine. I had no choice at that point but to accept. When it started to go wrong I checked the oil and there was none! No signs of burning or leaking oil either. I took it back to the dealer after the rally and explained to them that I believed that this was their fault and they should put it right. I'm waiting to hear from them.
Apart from all the whinging I had a great time, Riding the mighty Mackinac Bridge, the ferry to Mackinac Island, Prince Edward Island, Quebec and riding through the big cities lit up at night. I encountered deer, bears, eagles and raccoons, all on the road in front of me. 10,700 miles in 11 days, nowhere near the winners 14,000 miles plus.

 

[EricV]

Sorry to read that you had bike problems and were unable to complete your IBR. Yamaha likes their low oil level warning lights, (as opposed to low pressure). The mileage on the FJR is nothing. I put 162k on an '04. I would think you would have seen the low oil level light immediately if they failed to put any oil in the bike. Very odd occurrence. Honda Vs Yamaha oil isn't an issue. The Honda oils are very good, just as the Yamaha ones, but in the end, clean and slippery is good enough.

How many miles approximately between the oil change and when you noticed things going badly?

 

[Martin Little]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for sharing and sorry to hear you weren't able to make the finish, and I can understand your frustration after you questioned the dealer about the oil.

There were still so many highlights from this rally, including the many great locations and sights along the way. Hope to see you in 2025.

 

[biquer]

Sorry to read that you had bike problems and were unable to complete your IBR. Yamaha likes their low oil level warning lights, (as opposed to low pressure). The mileage on the FJR is nothing. I put 162k on an '04. I would think you would have seen the low oil level light immediately if they failed to put any oil in the bike. Very odd occurrence. Honda Vs Yamaha oil isn't an issue. The Honda oils are very good, just as the Yamaha ones, but in the end, clean and slippery is good enough.

How many miles approximately between the oil change and when you noticed things going badly?

It wasn't until the 8th day of the rally before things started to go wrong. About 8000 miles.

 

[EricV]

How odd. Unlikely the bike would run for 8k w/o oil. When you discovered it had "no oil", how much did it take to fill up? It had to go somewhere and a tire change and oil/filter change would generally not create other leak/burn possibilities.

 

[Shawn K]

How odd. Unlikely the bike would run for 8k w/o oil. When you discovered it had "no oil", how much did it take to fill up? It had to go somewhere and a tire change and oil/filter change would generally not create other leak/burn possibilities.

I'm very curious to hear the resolution of this matter.

 

[c10]

The FJR is a solid platform except the change to a 6 speed with the detune and breaking 2nd gear . The FJR tends to leak oil at the oil filter and down the case channel. While riding the wind blows it away , and when sitting it follows the trailing edged to right behind the front tire .
Did you use a OEM yamaha filter , Honda or a auto based oil filter ? Many of my customers use auto filters to save a few bucks but I noticed they never seal like OEM .

 

[EricV]

Unlikely a Honda dealer would use an auto filter. Some auto filters have a convex base at the threads and won't tighten down enough to seal correctly. The Yamaha filters, and every Honda moto filter I've seen had concave bases. I suppose a double gasket or torn O-ring is a possibility, but only the person that removes that oil filter will know. And there are Honda filters with the correct thread size and seal diameter.

 

[biquer]

There were no signs of leaks anywhere, there was no smell of burning oil, there was no sign of burnt oil in the exhausts. The oil filter did not look OEM. I wont be able to look any further until the bike comes back in the next few weeks.

 

[Splitter142]

Well done regardless.

 

[Donald Lowrey]

Well done indeed under a difficult circumstance. The bike would have run about 3 minutes without oil before completely seizing. Since your bike went 8K suggests a slow leak. The filter scenario described by OP is probable, as is a cross threaded drain plug. More remote, but maybe a seized piston ring allowing oil to be slowly pumped out on the exhaust stroke? Odd that the oil pressure light didn't warn. Drop the pan, any water, any metal?

 

[biquer]

It will be a couple of weeks before I get the bike back and have a closer look.

 

[LaFiamma]

Very frustrating to have gotten so close, but still an achievment so well done on what you were able to complete before the bike died. Be interesting to hear what you find when the bike gets home.

 

[stig of the dump]

unfortunate Joe.
I've run two fjr's now neither has ever burned oil always on semi synthetic spec sg or above. as long as its not car oil it should have been ok? did they put enough oil in at the change if its a bike dealer you'd think they'd get that right. low on engine oil and it'll make the bike run hot, should have taken around 4 litres at the change.
On saying that i just boiled the rear brake fluid on mine happen on two alpine passes. interesting moment when you're coming down something like a 1 in 4 pass and into a hairpin and the rear brake just vanishes no fade and pumping doesn't help. Only cure is to stop and let it cool down. that'll teach me to use car brake fluid, now on racing fluid it boils a whole 40 degrees higher than normal fluid.

 

[SteveAikens]

Any updates on this Joe? I'm sure there are others watching for how this gets/got resolved.

 

[Robert]

unfortunate Joe.
On saying that i just boiled the rear brake fluid on mine happen on two alpine passes. interesting moment when you're coming down something like a 1 in 4 pass and into a hairpin and the rear brake just vanishes no fade and pumping doesn't help. Only cure is to stop and let it cool down. that'll teach me to use car brake fluid, now on racing fluid it boils a whole 40 degrees higher than normal fluid.

What you describe is a classic. Any "car fluid" would be fine as long as it is the right specification, i.e. DOT 4 or DOT 5. In your case, your fluid was simply too old and "wet". This happens often when people from the lowlands come to the Alps and are surprised that their brake fluids start to boil.
If you want to be on the safe side whooshing down the passes, the fluid should not be older than two years.

 

[biquer]

Any updates on this Joe? I'm sure there are others watching for how this gets/got resolved.

Hi Steve, I just got the bike back last Wednesday and I've had a first poke around it. The first thing of note was that even though I had filled it with oil, the oil level was not showing in the sight glass, but I took at least 4 litres out of it. I don't know what to make of that. There was no sign of coolant in the oil. There was a bad smell of burning when I removed the cam cover. I changed the oil and filter (the oil then showed in the sight glass), filled it with coolant an started it up. It immediately spat coolant out through the overflow bottle and there was obviously steam in the exhaust smoke, it was running rough. I then pulled the plugs (the metal body of the plugs were cooked a nice light blue/grey colour) and screwed a compression tester into the first cylinder, when I turned it over a stream of coolant shot into the air from cylinder no 3. The compression was way below what it should have been but virtually non existent in no 3. When I initially ran it I did notice that there were bubbles appearing at the base of one of the 2 legs of the metal coolant pipe as it enters the head. I don't know if this caused a gradual release of coolant that was evaporating off, causing the problem or if the o ring was damaged because of the overheating? I had done a major service, including valve clearances a couple of months before the rally, but I had done more than 6000 miles after that, including 2 x SS1000s and I had lifted the tank and run the bike at operating temperature a couple of weeks before the rally and there were no leaks. It was running like a swiss watch and using or leaking no fluids as it had done for its previous 70,000 miles.
I will pull the head off tonight and who knows what I'll find!
There are plenty of suitable used FJR engines (around £1000/$1250) and cylinder heads available due to insurance companies preferring to write everything off these days. One breaker told me they've parted out practically new bikes due to them haven been recovered from being stolen and written off! Looking at the Yamaha parts list it appears that there have only been 2 cylinder heads across the range, one up to 2014, and another one since then? I checked the price of a new head from Yamaha for a laugh and I wasn't wrong, a naked cylinder head is around £3,600/$4500???
Best guess at this point is a cracked head or a cracked block.
The options appear to be, a repaired head, a replacement head or a replacement engine? Time will tell!

 

[SteveAikens]

Thanks for the detailed update Joe. I'm guessing there are some FJR riders out there that are watching this thread and will find your comments helpful.

Hope you get it all resolved soon.

 

[stig of the dump]

Hi Steve, I just got the bike back last Wednesday and I've had a first poke around it. The first thing of note was that even though I had filled it with oil, the oil level was not showing in the sight glass, but I took at least 4 litres out of it. I don't know what to make of that. There was no sign of coolant in the oil. There was a bad smell of burning when I removed the cam cover. I changed the oil and filter (the oil then showed in the sight glass), filled it with coolant an started it up. It immediately spat coolant out through the overflow bottle and there was obviously steam in the exhaust smoke, it was running rough. I then pulled the plugs (the metal body of the plugs were cooked a nice light blue/grey colour) and screwed a compression tester into the first cylinder, when I turned it over a stream of coolant shot into the air from cylinder no 3. The compression was way below what it should have been but virtually non existent in no 3. When I initially ran it I did notice that there were bubbles appearing at the base of one of the 2 legs of the metal coolant pipe as it enters the head. I don't know if this caused a gradual release of coolant that was evaporating off, causing the problem or if the o ring was damaged because of the overheating? I had done a major service, including valve clearances a couple of months before the rally, but I had done more than 6000 miles after that, including 2 x SS1000s and I had lifted the tank and run the bike at operating temperature a couple of weeks before the rally and there were no leaks. It was running like a swiss watch and using or leaking no fluids as it had done for its previous 70,000 miles.
I will pull the head off tonight and who knows what I'll find!
There are plenty of suitable used FJR engines (around £1000/$1250) and cylinder heads available due to insurance companies preferring to write everything off these days. One breaker told me they've parted out practically new bikes due to them haven been recovered from being stolen and written off! Looking at the Yamaha parts list it appears that there have only been 2 cylinder heads across the range, one up to 2014, and another one since then? I checked the price of a new head from Yamaha for a laugh and I wasn't wrong, a naked cylinder head is around £3,600/$4500???
Best guess at this point is a cracked head or a cracked block.
The options appear to be, a repaired head, a replacement head or a replacement engine? Time will tell!

sounds like you've blown the head gasket

 

[stig of the dump]

What you describe is a classic. Any "car fluid" would be fine as long as it is the right specification, i.e. DOT 4 or DOT 5. In your case, your fluid was simply too old and "wet". This happens often when people from the lowlands come to the Alps and are surprised that their brake fluids start to boil.
If you want to be on the safe side whooshing down the passes, the fluid should not be older than two years.

changed the brake fluid just before i set off. some lovely cheap and cheerful dot 4 i'd been using on the car not that old either. but it wasn't up to the rather step and twisty passes learnt my lesson and paid a fortune for what's used on racing bikes.

the alpine passes are a bit longer and closer together than what we get in the uk so it was a problem i'd not encountered in the past