Question of Witness forms and nested rides

#1
Hi,

I am new here and have been planning my first SS1000 for months, I am fortunate enough to live in West Virginia and thought the "Almost Heaven to Hell and back" would be an awesome ride to start with for my SS1000, but while mapping a route I decided why not try for the BB at the same time!

My plan is to roll in the morning after a great nights rest and head to Hell MI for the first leg of about 600 miles, then next 425 heading south to reenter WV for the SS1000. I planned on stopping for 4-6 hours of rest then running the next 500 to finish by the 36 Hour time limit.

I ride distance and have no problems sitting in the saddle for long periods of time, but I also realize sometimes things happen and I may not be able to finish the 1500 with-in the allotted time.

So here are the questions:

1. Do I need a Witness form at the 1000 mile mark when I stop back in WV? The reason I ask, if my bike breaks down after that or I cannot complete the 1500 in 36 hours I would hate to lose credit for what I had completed with-in the limits of the IBA.

2. On the corners of the ride the rules state to get a receipt to show I was there. How close to said corner is that requirement? I am using Bubbler GPS Pro and have it set for 5 minute increments for Spotwalla. On a few of the corners there isn't a stop close by to get a receipt from.

Thanks for listening and I look forward to clarification!
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#2
1. You do no need a witness at the 1,000-mile/24-hour mark, but you do need to obtain a computer-generated receipt showing date, time, and location to document the fact that you completed the Saddlesore 1000 within the ride's time limit. If for some reason you subsequently fail to complete the Bun Burner 1500, obtain an end witness at that point.

2. The objective of the rule is to show you didn't take any shortcuts, so the receipt does not need to be precisely at the corner - just at some point that satisfies the objective of the rule. Including your Spotwalla track will also help demonstrate you rode the ride you claim.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 

Amnon Romano

Premier Member
#3
…on the corners of the ride the rules state to get a receipt…
…the objective of the rule is to show you didn't take any shortcuts…
Ira shalom,

On that note, you may want to take a look at that section of the rules – and make a once over to make the reason for the corner thing clearer, especially for new comers.

I’m occasionally contacted by new soon-to-be-members who want me to review their rides. I recently came across a SS1K ride with 23 (!) receipts – half of which were not needed.

Folks often take the word “corner” literally.

Just a thought,
 
#5
Thanks for the information....
I have it down to 10 stops for receipts for the SS and and additional 8 for the additional 500 miles....

Going to play it by ear as I ride and let the road and ride dictate if I go for the BB. Looks as if weather may take a turn for the worse and I would rather take and slow and safe and arrive alive.
 

kwthom

Rider
Premier Member
IBA Member
#6
By the way, how *did* this ride turn out??
:cool:


Let's go back to the corner discussion this thread had in it. Amnon made a good point; Ira has noted it, but maybe for those reading along, a bit of guidance might be helpful.

http://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/ssseries/

Paragraph 9 of STEP ONE, Choose a SAFE route reads:

"If you choose a circular route, you will need to obtain a dated receipt at each "corner" to show that you did not take a short-cut. For example, if you choose to ride the circular route of Chicago, Illinois to St. Louis, Missouri to Kansas City, Kansas to Des Moines, Iowa and back to Chicago, we would expect to receive receipts from each of those cities (in addition to the guidelines that follow)."

Perhaps what's needed is a IBA-level definition of "corner". Might I suggest the following wording - specifically for the newbies.

"In the IBA, a "corner" is recognized as a deliberate course or direction change. Using the example above, in the immediate vicinity of St Louis, Missouri, you need that dated receipt. You are allowed a bit of leeway, but your route must clearly define this directional change as close as practical to where it happened. This same requirement exists in the other locations noted in the route example above. It's up to you to determine along your personally chosen route, these locations noting a deliberate directional change by way of a dated business receipt."

I don't think we'd want to get further into the granularity of this in the guideline document. I mean, a rider could always choose a location immediately *before* or *after* the directional change. Again, we truly understand the spirit of the guidance the document provides, and this is what we should be trying to convey to potential riders.

Now, on this route, I quickly looked for a couple of places that I would choose. I've been thru St. Louis; some parts of the city are - shall we say, less than a desirable place to stop? I believe elsewhere in the guidance there's wording to "try the best you can to get as close as you can" to these locations. Maybe this needs to be briefly reiterated in this discussion as well. I don't think my receipt would have "St. Louis, MO" but would definitely have a community close to it.

Enough rambling for now...
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#7
I don't think that helps.

"If you choose a circular route, you will need to obtain a dated receipt at each "corner" to show that you did not take a short-cut [bold for emphasis]. There can be a "deliberate course or direction change" where there is no opportunity to take a short cut, in which case a documentation receipt would not be necessary.

Also note that this applies to routes other than circular - square, triagular, etc. Obtain documentation receipts whenever you need to show you didn't take a short cut In terms of either distance or time.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 

kwthom

Rider
Premier Member
IBA Member
#8
Fair enough.

The guideline describes the three major types of routing possible.

Straight-line - Point A to B. Simple, easy, unambiguous.

'Out-and-back' - Point A to B to A. Receipt at B proves rider has accomplished half-distance (for sake of the discussion) "Deliberate course or direction change" has happened exactly one time in this case. Hard to 'short-cut' this situation, but I'm sure it's been attempted.

'Circular' - Point A to B to ... "Deliberate course or direction change" happens at least twice in this situation, and is where the rider's "proof you didn't take a short-cut in terms of either distance or time" must occur.

In Amnon's example in post #3, it's obvious that the intransitive verb "corner" is taken literally, especially in areas where the nuances of the English language may not be as understood.

So, once implemented in the next update of the guideline, this should be a solved problem? ;)


Unlike nested rides... :eek:
 
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