Sleep during the IBR

#1
I know this is a dump question but how much sleep do riders get when doing the IBR? I was listening to Mike Brooke interview and he was stating that he did 36hr rides to get to a check point or on, my question was he riding 30 some hrs straight, just getting off the bike to refuel? If yes I don't see how? BTW I would love to someday do a IBR but I need to build up my butt, and try a shorted rally just to see how to organize things.

Thank you for the help.

Steve
 

igneouss

Premier Member
#2
No simple answer.
I've been researching/reading on this issue a lot as 2023 IBR entrant.
It seems to be highly variable. The constant seems to be that each individual must know their own limits and make safe decisions. If a person can't do that then they are in the wrong game.
That established there are lots of strategies for dealing with fatigue. Many riders will make more frequent, short stops to clear their head. Others do exercises while riding. Some take additional sleep breaks because it's better to just be a finisher than it is to risk an accident while trying for a higher place finish. Managing fatigue is part of the puzzle. I'd guess that lots of folks finish the IBR without doing 36hr stints. Personally, I can do 24 but I need a decent rest afterwards. Without that rest fatigue accumulates. Training and experience matters a lot as well. You can push your limits farther as you get more acclimated to it. Then there is physical condition and diet to consider. If you are out of shape... that's a big disadvantage. If you are subsisting on twinkies... likewise.

A side note: Airline pilots spend years learning how to stay focuses when tired. It should not surprise you that 2 of the best IBR riders are airline pilots.
 
#3
Nick, thank you for the info, I'm very new to long distance riding, did a SS 1000 in 2020. At the end of May I'm planning to ride my bike from Richland, WA to Columbus, GA. I'm going to try and do a Butt Burner 1500 on the way and I was just looking for some advice from others, thank you again.

Steve
 

cacomly

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#7
I know this is a dump question but how much sleep do riders get when doing the IBR? I was listening to Mike Brooke interview and he was stating that he did 36hr rides to get to a check point or on, my question was he riding 30 some hrs straight, just getting off the bike to refuel? If yes I don't see how? BTW I would love to someday do a IBR but I need to build up my butt, and try a shorted rally just to see how to organize things.

Thank you for the help.

Steve
Very good question actually, and as stated it depends on the rider and what they wish to accomplish.

I personally am riding 18-20 hours a day and sleeping the rest of the time during the IBR. I have a good understanding of my limits and know when I need more sleep. I have read the article Lisa posted the link to several times and what works for me is a 15 minute nap when I feel like I can no longer stay awake. I may do 2, 3, or 4 of those 45-60 minutes apart and then get my "second wind" and be fine for hours.

As for how Mike did you'll need to ask him
 

Stephen!

Flivver Flyer
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
#8
Here is a responsible, intelligent article on the subject of sleep from the former Naval Surgeon General, LD rider Adm Donald Arthur. Riders have been using this information to accomplish safe, successful rides for over 17 years now.

https://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/IBMag01-200.pdf Scroll to page 39
Have you heard anything from Dr. Don lately? Wanted to reach out to him recently but seem to have lost his contact info.... :confused:
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#9
It should also be noted that in the IBR we have one or more rest bonuses per leg. There is no requirement to take the rest bonuses, but anyone who would pass up points for standing still is more often than not an idiot. :)

Ira
 

rneal55555

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#10
In 2021 we took 100% the rest bonus (8 hours per leg) and stopped 5 - 6 hours every other night usually 6. I know from long history of watch standing on submarines that I can get by with 4-5 hours a day over a fairly long period of time. In the Senior Butt rally there was a 6 hour rest bonus each day I think I actually got more seep during the Rally than a regular work week. Bottom line is as others have said is you have to know yourself and your limits and have a plan that that doesn't exceed those limits.
 
#11
Ira and Russ,
thank you for the info, I didn't know that there was a REST BONUS built in to the rally. I totally agree with having to know your self and your limits. I was just wondering how IBR riders did handle sleep, and I just couldn't find anything about it. Like I said earlier I will be riding 2500 miles from Washington state to Georgia at the end of May I'm going to try and do a Butt Burner gold while I'm on this trip. I will be riding my 2014 Honda Valkyrie, I just love that flat 6 motor, Thanks again for answering my question.

Steve
 

Owsley

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#12
"A rider has got to know his limitations". I heard that somewhere before.

As stated above, depends.
I know it is hard for me to nap if its 100 degrees outside and no air conditioning or protection, but I would if I needed to.

Most, if not all multi day rally's have rest bonuses built-in, some have mandatory ones, to me, always worth the points
 
#13
Sleep...

I saw this post and thought I should add a couple things to the conversation. Rest during the IBR or any rally is critically important, this isn't news. I'm sure that most everyone is aware that our cognitive ability, decision making, reflexes and really everything we rely on while operating a motorcycle diminishes as fatigue increases. There's no doubt that a endurance rally by it's nature pushes you mentally and physically, being rested enough to safely operate your motorcycle is an absolute necessity. It was said that "Airline pilots spend years learning how to stay focused when tired". I understand the sentiment but that's actually not correct. If anything being a pilot just helps in being more aware of how your cognitive ability declines without proper rest and how to identify it before it could impact safety. We are all human and need rest to function safely, I honestly believe that "training" or "acclimation" for fatigue is a farse, only better recognition and mitigation. I'm a 8hr a night or I'm tired kinda person. While I have rode a few long stretchs, that's only the headline where the details are not always talked about. On rallies I've purchased a hotel in the middle of the day for only a few hrs. I've woken up from a rest period only to stop and sleep 2hrs later. As much as I prefer a hotel for quality rest I've been using shorter rests more often on prolonged stretchs when needed to stay safe and alert.

Just a couple things I've learned for me personally and also as just general advice for the IBR. The rest bonuses during the rally are nowhere near the total rest you'll need during the 11 day rally, so take the points to rest when they're offered and plan to take additional rest as your body needs it. There is no hard fast rule on amount, for me I know there's a point in which my abilities take a turn downhill fast and I try to stay ahead of it. Fatigue is cumulative and factors like stress, weather conditions, hydration and overall health all play into it. Judging your level of fatigue while your fatigued is similar to an intoxicated person saying they're not drunk, which is why it's important to stay ahead of it. The 2021 IBR was my first and while I was pretty well prepared going in, one thing I didn't fully understand was the relentlessness of the time pressure and fatigue, It's definitely a marathon and choosing when and how to rest is challenging. Ride safe!
 

cacomly

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#14
Ira and Russ,
thank you for the info, I didn't know that there was a REST BONUS built in to the rally. I totally agree with having to know your self and your limits. I was just wondering how IBR riders did handle sleep, and I just couldn't find anything about it. Like I said earlier I will be riding 2500 miles from Washington state to Georgia at the end of May I'm going to try and do a Butt Burner gold while I'm on this trip. I will be riding my 2014 Honda Valkyrie, I just love that flat 6 motor, Thanks again for answering my question.

Steve
Steve,
One other point not mentioned is during the IBR that there are two checkpoints and at worst case if you arrive just before DNF time which is usually 10pm and get scored within 30 minutes you'd have 5 1/2 hours until the 4am rider meeting. Most riders are in by 8pm.

As Mike said, being fatigued while trying to judge your level of fatigue is difficult. Be conscious of indicators that you are too tired to ride and don't be afraid to stop and take a break
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBA Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#15
Ira and Russ,
thank you for the info, I didn't know that there was a REST BONUS built in to the rally.

Steve
FYI, there have in the past been two bonus types for which riders should have no excuse missing. One is the rest bonus and the other is the call-in bonus.

Helpful hint:

There is a wealth of information on our Web site detailing previous rallies, including bonus listing and other information that tends to be common across rallies regardless of the underlying torture Jeff has in store for you. The 2021 rally info is at

https://ironbutt.com/ibr2021/

Studying the bonus listings, in particular, will provide you with lots of answers. It will also provide you with lots of questions to ask.

Ira
 

EricV

Premier Member
IBR Finisher
#16
In regards to the original question, it needs to be stated that competitive endurance rallies are nothing like a certificate ride.

For cert rides, the singular goal is to meet the requirements of that ride. The value in doing cert rides, in terms of long distance riding, is in learning about yourself. What 'tells' do you show that indicates you're tired enough to warrant a stop? What tells are present that let you know you need to stop immediately? These things are as vital as understanding your hydration needs.

Ask any experienced LD rider if they have ever realized they needed to stop, then ridden right past a rest area or the next exit or hotel that they had intended to stop at. Most have. For many, if not most, an early indicator is not being able to maintain the speed you intended to. Some have micro hallucinations before they experience micro-sleep. One rider told me a tale of catching a reflective flash out of the corner of his vision at night and *knowing* it was the pant leg of a rider's stich. He immediately turned around and went back to help what he believed was a rider in the ditch. It turned out to be a bent over reflector post. He slept shortly after, realizing his mind was not as sharp as he needed it to be.

For me, it's partly about maintaining a rhythm. When I was working shift work, I grew keenly aware of my low ebb periods of the day. I can ride well and maintain focus for 20 hours a day, be off the road for 4 hours and sleep for a solid 3 and keep doing that for an unlimited period of time, barring outside issues and screwing up that rhythm. I know my sleep cycle is 3 hours. I need to be off the road from 1am to 3 at minimum. If I sleep for 4 hours and get up with an alarm, I'll be worse off cognitively than if I sleep 3 hours and get up on my own. What worked for me then was finding a hotel at midnight and being back on the road at 4am. I can do this w/o using an alarm clock. It can be challenging to find a room at midnight in some areas of the US away from interstate chain hotels.

On a cert ride, you have a better than average chance of maintaining a rhythm that works for you. In a competitive rally, it's a lot harder to do with the external problems to sort and timelines to focus on. I once found myself in Key West during a rally at 9pm after having gotten started that morning in Tallahassee, FL at 4am and hunting bonuses all the way down to KW. Only then did I realize I needed to be in Kerney, NE in 36 hours. KW is not a place you get out of quickly and I was already tired from a circuitous 800+ mile ride down to KW. I made it with 15 minutes to spare, but my rhythm was shot after 5 days of a 10 day rally. I slept for 6 hours, rode for 4 hours and slept for another 3, but never regained my rhythm and ended up DNFing that rally for time barred after getting a room at 7am the final morning of the rally, still several states away from the finish. I learned a lot during that rally. I was pushing pretty hard and failed on several levels to manage my time and miles well.

Learn your sleep cycle. Learn your low ebb period(s) of the day. If you plan your rides with those in mind, you should do well.
 
Last edited:

Shame

Premier Member
#17
In regards to the original question, it needs to be stated that competitive endurance rallies are nothing like a certificate ride.

For cert rides, the singular goal is to meet the requirements of that ride. The value in doing cert rides, in terms of long distance riding, is in learning about yourself. What 'tells' do you show that indicates you're tired enough to warrant a stop? What tells are present that let you know you need to stop immediately? These things are as vital as understanding your hydration needs.

Ask any experienced LD rider if they have ever realized they needed to stop, then ridden right past a rest area or the next exit or hotel that they had intended to stop at. Most have. For many, if not most, an early indicator is not being able to maintain the speed you intended to. Some have micro hallucinations before they experience micro-sleep. One rider told me a tale of catching a reflective flash out of the corner of his vision at night and *knowing* it was the pant leg of a rider's stich. He immediately turned around and went back to help what he believed was a rider in the ditch. It turned out to be a bent over reflector post. He slept shortly after, realizing his mind was not as sharp as he needed it to be.

For me, it's partly about maintaining a rhythm. When I was working shift work, I grew keenly aware of my low ebb periods of the day. I can ride well and maintain focus for 20 hours a day, be off the road for 4 hours and sleep for a solid 3 and keep doing that for an unlimited period of time, barring outside issues and screwing up that rhythm. I know my sleep cycle is 3 hours. I need to be off the road from 1am to 3 at minimum. If I sleep for 4 hours and get up with an alarm, I'll be worse of cognitively than if I sleep 3 hours and get up on my own. What worked for me then was finding a hotel at midnight and being back on the road at 4am. I can do this w/o using an alarm clock. It can be challenging to find a room at midnight in some areas of the US away from interstate chain hotels.

On a cert ride, you have a better than average chance of maintaining a rhythm that works for you. In a competitive rally, it's a lot harder to do with the external problems to sort and timelines to focus on. I once found myself in Key West during a rally at 9pm after having gotten started that morning in Tallahassee, FL at 4am and hunting bonuses all the way down to KW. Only then did I realize I needed to be in Kerney, NE in 36 hours. KW is not a place you get out of quickly and I was already tired from a circuitous 800+ mile ride down to KW. I made it with 15 minutes to spare, but my rhythm was shot after 5 days of a 10 day rally. I slept for 6 hours, rode for 4 hours and slept for another 3, but never regained my rhythm and ended up DNFing that rally for time barred after getting a room at 7am the final morning of the rally, still several states away from the finish. I learned a lot during that rally. I was pushing pretty hard and failed on several levels to manage my time and miles well.

Learn your sleep cycle. Learn your low ebb period(s) of the day. If you plan your rides with those in mind, you should do well.
This reply is gold. Very helpful and specific examples. Thank you Eric.
 
#18
Sleep...

I saw this post and thought I should add a couple things to the conversation. Rest during the IBR or any rally is critically important, this isn't news. I'm sure that most everyone is aware that our cognitive ability, decision making, reflexes and really everything we rely on while operating a motorcycle diminishes as fatigue increases. There's no doubt that a endurance rally by it's nature pushes you mentally and physically, being rested enough to safely operate your motorcycle is an absolute necessity. It was said that "Airline pilots spend years learning how to stay focused when tired". I understand the sentiment but that's actually not correct. If anything being a pilot just helps in being more aware of how your cognitive ability declines without proper rest and how to identify it before it could impact safety. We are all human and need rest to function safely, I honestly believe that "training" or "acclimation" for fatigue is a farse, only better recognition and mitigation. I'm a 8hr a night or I'm tired kinda person. While I have rode a few long stretchs, that's only the headline where the details are not always talked about. On rallies I've purchased a hotel in the middle of the day for only a few hrs. I've woken up from a rest period only to stop and sleep 2hrs later. As much as I prefer a hotel for quality rest I've been using shorter rests more often on prolonged stretchs when needed to stay safe and alert.

Just a couple things I've learned for me personally and also as just general advice for the IBR. The rest bonuses during the rally are nowhere near the total rest you'll need during the 11 day rally, so take the points to rest when they're offered and plan to take additional rest as your body needs it. There is no hard fast rule on amount, for me I know there's a point in which my abilities take a turn downhill fast and I try to stay ahead of it. Fatigue is cumulative and factors like stress, weather conditions, hydration and overall health all play into it. Judging your level of fatigue while your fatigued is similar to an intoxicated person saying they're not drunk, which is why it's important to stay ahead of it. The 2021 IBR was my first and while I was pretty well prepared going in, one thing I didn't fully understand was the relentlessness of the time pressure and fatigue, It's definitely a marathon and choosing when and how to rest is challenging. Ride safe!

Mike,
first off congratulations on your win, second thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts on this topic, I would love to try the IBR in the future but I was having trouble wrapping my head around how people got the rest that they needed and still rich the check points on time. I used to be a distance runner and I have run races from 5K up to 1/2 marathon. I miss running but my body doesn't like to anymore, I love to just get on the bike and ride, I'm intrigued with the IBR, I miss pushing myself physical and mentality and I see that the IBR will do that to the nth degree.

Thank you again

Steve
 

paulcb

Premier Member
#19
Steve, note that entry into the IBR is by application only, i.e. you need a bit of a rally resume to get in, so you can't just sign up and ride it like most other rallys. Applications begin about 18 months before the rally starts, and many don't get accepted. I've not applied for the IBR yet, but have been building my resume the past few years with other rallys to maybe apply in the future, i.e. 2025.