I am starting to plan our riding group's 3rd annual IBA ride and we have decided this year to do the Lower Great Lakes 1000 in mid-June. Those that don't have passports have already started working on getting them but we have been averaging 20+ and growing as this new tradition keeps growing. We are starting in Ohio and making our way clockwise up around Lake Erie to Lake Ontario and back around Lake Erie. Wondering if we are going to face any challenge crossing the border with a such a large group and if there are any suggestions on how to make the border crossing as seamless as possible. Is that even really a thing....lol?
SS1000 Lower Great Lakes
- Thread starter cweisg
- Start date
Not regarding border crossings specifically, but group riding in general.
Riding as a single, monolithic group loses efficiency as the number of riders increases. Different riders have different fuel tank and bladder capacities, riding styles, and riding abilities. Twenty bikes trying to refuel at the same time slows things down for everyone. There can be issues if there is a breakdown, injury, or sickness - is it every person on their own, or is there a plan?
Moreover, riding in large groups presents a variety of safety concerns. For example, it is common for the better riders to lead and the slower or less experienced riders to lag. At a rest stop, it is not uncommon for the slowest riders to be pulling in as the fastest riders are ready to continue on. So some riders are always playing catch-up. Conversely, if the group has the slowest riders leading, the more experienced riders can become frustrated.
A safer and more efficient method is to plan the route and let folks ride it at their own pace. It is common for small groups of riders (i.e., two, three or four) with similar riding styles to form up. Such a group ride method also mitigates problems at stops, whether for fuel, rest breaks, or border crossings.
I don't know how much of the above you have already considered or dealt with on earlier group rides, but thought I would mention it.
Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
Riding as a single, monolithic group loses efficiency as the number of riders increases. Different riders have different fuel tank and bladder capacities, riding styles, and riding abilities. Twenty bikes trying to refuel at the same time slows things down for everyone. There can be issues if there is a breakdown, injury, or sickness - is it every person on their own, or is there a plan?
Moreover, riding in large groups presents a variety of safety concerns. For example, it is common for the better riders to lead and the slower or less experienced riders to lag. At a rest stop, it is not uncommon for the slowest riders to be pulling in as the fastest riders are ready to continue on. So some riders are always playing catch-up. Conversely, if the group has the slowest riders leading, the more experienced riders can become frustrated.
A safer and more efficient method is to plan the route and let folks ride it at their own pace. It is common for small groups of riders (i.e., two, three or four) with similar riding styles to form up. Such a group ride method also mitigates problems at stops, whether for fuel, rest breaks, or border crossings.
I don't know how much of the above you have already considered or dealt with on earlier group rides, but thought I would mention it.
Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
Did the Lake Erie/Lake Ontario Saddle Sore some years back, an interesting one as we started in rain leaving out of Port Huron/Sarnia and had it for near 900 miles. Additionally, around Toronto we had 1/4” hail which was exciting in itself. You raised the question of border crossing and I’ll add this you can decide for yourself what you may want to do with it. As I currently live very near the St. Clair River I have three choices for border crossing. First choice is the crossing out of Algonac, a small town very near Harsens Island and the easiest most low key crossing to be found,(most scenic as well but note they close at 10:00 p.m.). You enter Canada through Walpole Island Indian Reservation, cross their drawbridge and ride a couple miles east to Wallaceburg giving you several choices to extend your route. Second choice is to cross up at Port Huron/Sarnia which can give you a straight shot utilizing the 401-402. Lastly, is to cross at Detroit/Windsor which will be the most inconvenient traffic wise. Additionally, with the area under construction for the newest second span,(Geordie Howe bridge), I have no idea the effect of crossing the Detroit River. Note: there is additionally a tunnel crossing of the river but unfortunately you are not allowed to utilize it on a motorcycle. Hope this gives you some insight, best wishes for the near year, please keep it safe!
Thanks, I'm not worried about group riding skills. Our chapter has weekly rides that average 20 to 30 people and we have around 30 rides per riding season. This year will be our third Saddle Sore 1000 as a chapter but first crossing the border so I was looking for some suggestions or ideas as we try to enter Canada with a large group.
A little late coming into this but don't see it mentioned above, to avoid serious delays you may want to query your riders to see if any had DUI's or other convictions. Canada is very particular about US citizens entering with a record. I have had colleagues on business and hunters going up turned away for long ago convictions.
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-402?language=en_US
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...issibility/overcome-criminal-convictions.html
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-402?language=en_US
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...issibility/overcome-criminal-convictions.html
Did the LGL1000 several years ago start/finish Syracuse. Started Syracuse 6am clockwise putting me in Toronto 4-5pm, I expected a LOT of traffic, that was to be expected. What I didn't anticipate was the unmanned toll roads. Coming to a split the free side was a non-moving parking lot, the toll side was empty, it was 90* HOT. Thought what the heck I'm going where I can keep moving no matter what it costs so I took the toll side. Ended up going under a number of toll photo setups, no way to pay. Thought oh well we'll see what happens. Well nothing happened, never received anything, been back a few times and thought maybe I'd have a bill to pay at the border, but no, ymmv.
@cweisg - What you're planning is very different from the rest of the LD community. Most LD riders would never consider doing a IBA ride in a large group. That's one reason why you're not getting much input on large groups crossing the border.
Virtually always when crossing the border with other bikes you will be asked "are you with these other bikes/riders?" You need the first person in your group at the crossing to be very clear and positive that yes, you are with XX people on motorcycles and you're on a group ride. Do NOT mention the IBA or the SS1K ride, and coach all of your riders to NOT mention these things, but to just say you're all members of the North Canton Indian motorcycle group, (not club), and you're enjoying a day ride through Canada, heading for lunch in xxxxx town, then what ever crossing you plan to use. You're in Canada "for the day", not a specific amount of time. Don't mention any time line other than it being a day ride.
I can tell you from first hand experience that if you say you're going to be in Canada for X or XX hours, it triggers a flag and you, possibly your entire group, will be sent to secondary inspection and asked more questions. Border control knows when you entered, when you were last in Canada and will ask you when you were last in Canada when you enter, so tell your people to have some idea when they were last in Canada and be prepared for that question.
When you re-cross the border, just be honest about where you entered Canada and that you're on a day ride, if asked.
Strictly in my opinion, it would be best if you can honestly say you entered Canada that morning and leave before nightfall. It's going to look suspicious if you enter/exit in the wee hours of the morning or middle of the night. Ditto if you enter in the afternoon/evening and ride through the night. You're only going to be in Canada for ~6 hours. Make those daylight hours. If you've never 'enjoyed' the 401 connector out of Toronto, it sucks. Lots of traffic and erratic drivers.
Virtually always when crossing the border with other bikes you will be asked "are you with these other bikes/riders?" You need the first person in your group at the crossing to be very clear and positive that yes, you are with XX people on motorcycles and you're on a group ride. Do NOT mention the IBA or the SS1K ride, and coach all of your riders to NOT mention these things, but to just say you're all members of the North Canton Indian motorcycle group, (not club), and you're enjoying a day ride through Canada, heading for lunch in xxxxx town, then what ever crossing you plan to use. You're in Canada "for the day", not a specific amount of time. Don't mention any time line other than it being a day ride.
I can tell you from first hand experience that if you say you're going to be in Canada for X or XX hours, it triggers a flag and you, possibly your entire group, will be sent to secondary inspection and asked more questions. Border control knows when you entered, when you were last in Canada and will ask you when you were last in Canada when you enter, so tell your people to have some idea when they were last in Canada and be prepared for that question.
When you re-cross the border, just be honest about where you entered Canada and that you're on a day ride, if asked.
Strictly in my opinion, it would be best if you can honestly say you entered Canada that morning and leave before nightfall. It's going to look suspicious if you enter/exit in the wee hours of the morning or middle of the night. Ditto if you enter in the afternoon/evening and ride through the night. You're only going to be in Canada for ~6 hours. Make those daylight hours. If you've never 'enjoyed' the 401 connector out of Toronto, it sucks. Lots of traffic and erratic drivers.
One draw back besides the ones mentioned so far is a lot of time will be wasted for rest stops ( bathroom breaks) waiting in line.
My advice would be to form smaller groups, like 4 or 5 Riders in a group and each group start the ride 20 or 30 minutes apart or all start together and stagger the locations of gas stops along the route for 4 or 5 Riders.
I agree that it is best to avoid Port Huron / Sarnia during heavy traffic periods ( and they get a lot of truck traffic most of the day ). I crossed over at Detroit twice on the bridge doing the Lower Great Lakes SS1K without a problem.
Not a problem at the Thousand Island Bridge. Another option would be going up to Ogensburg but that would add extra time.
It may be possible ( check with the IBA ) to cross via Kingston / Wolfe Island / Port Vincent. This is allowed for the Great Lakes 100 and may be OK for the Lower Great Lakes. But the ferry from Port Vincent to Wolfe Island is a small ferry and I doubt it could carry 20 bikes. So that would be extra waiting time. The ferry from Wolfe Island to Kingston is a big ship and was free when I used it back in 2011.
EDIT : Still free, see: Wolfe Island Ferry
My advice would be to form smaller groups, like 4 or 5 Riders in a group and each group start the ride 20 or 30 minutes apart or all start together and stagger the locations of gas stops along the route for 4 or 5 Riders.
I agree that it is best to avoid Port Huron / Sarnia during heavy traffic periods ( and they get a lot of truck traffic most of the day ). I crossed over at Detroit twice on the bridge doing the Lower Great Lakes SS1K without a problem.
Not a problem at the Thousand Island Bridge. Another option would be going up to Ogensburg but that would add extra time.
It may be possible ( check with the IBA ) to cross via Kingston / Wolfe Island / Port Vincent. This is allowed for the Great Lakes 100 and may be OK for the Lower Great Lakes. But the ferry from Port Vincent to Wolfe Island is a small ferry and I doubt it could carry 20 bikes. So that would be extra waiting time. The ferry from Wolfe Island to Kingston is a big ship and was free when I used it back in 2011.
EDIT : Still free, see: Wolfe Island Ferry
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My best crossing spot is the ferry out of Algonac over to Walpole Island, low traffic, pleasant people and you can pick several routes to run out of Wallaceburg. I hate Detroit/Windsor, and not much fonder of Port Huron/Sarnia. While the latter two are open 24/7, the Algonac/Walpole Island ferry stops running at 10:00p.m. Be for warned.
I cannot provide any advice about which crossing is better at the Detroit end of the ride because I have never crossed there. The 1000 Islands bridge is a nice crossing and is usually low traffic.
I can provide *some* advice about crossing the border because I live just north of Vermont and cross the border about 40-50 times a year for a variety of reasons. Eric V's advice is very solid. You should have every member of your group read that email multiple times. The key is (A) answering the questions you are asked...period...full stop. Don't offer any additional information, don't try to *impress* the border guard with your exploit and even if he asks something like "are you doing a rally" or anything similar, don't be drawn in. Your answer should be "Nope, just going for lunch at XXX" (or turn it into a 2-day trip or something...but make sure everyone has the same story...even if the story is "I'm just following him").
As was previously mentioned, if anyone has a past conviction for DUI or a criminal conviction, they could be refused entry, regardless of how long ago it was. Everyone will also certainly be asked if they are carrying any weapons (firearms, knives, etc.) and in order to gain entry, the answer needs to be "no" (and you better be telling the truth because if you lie about that and are searched, the consequences are severe).
I hope this helps. Most of my IBA rides have been solo or with a single partner, but I did one with a group of eight (8) other riders and it was definitely a different kind of ride.
Have fun and ride safe.
Cheers!
I can provide *some* advice about crossing the border because I live just north of Vermont and cross the border about 40-50 times a year for a variety of reasons. Eric V's advice is very solid. You should have every member of your group read that email multiple times. The key is (A) answering the questions you are asked...period...full stop. Don't offer any additional information, don't try to *impress* the border guard with your exploit and even if he asks something like "are you doing a rally" or anything similar, don't be drawn in. Your answer should be "Nope, just going for lunch at XXX" (or turn it into a 2-day trip or something...but make sure everyone has the same story...even if the story is "I'm just following him").
As was previously mentioned, if anyone has a past conviction for DUI or a criminal conviction, they could be refused entry, regardless of how long ago it was. Everyone will also certainly be asked if they are carrying any weapons (firearms, knives, etc.) and in order to gain entry, the answer needs to be "no" (and you better be telling the truth because if you lie about that and are searched, the consequences are severe).
I hope this helps. Most of my IBA rides have been solo or with a single partner, but I did one with a group of eight (8) other riders and it was definitely a different kind of ride.
Have fun and ride safe.
Cheers!
