support vehicle or no support vehicle?

Clive Rand

Premier Member
#1
Hi guys, I am being my usual pain in the rear but I am having a bit of trouble finding the actual rules for the rides, a small group of us, so far a confirmed trio but may get bigger. Anyway we have had a person who wants to travel along with us in asort of support vehicle, this is in case a bike may break down, this can allow the other riders to continue without abandoning our brother or sister, as with so many other groups we don't leave anyone behind unassisted, also he wants to take a few pictures along the way for our own gallery. So is this permitted at all or does this have other ramifications to those taking part in the challenge? we are looking at this maybe in the late Feb to early to mid March, and we want to make sure we don't stuff it up on our first attempt.
 

kwthom

Rider
Premier Member
IBA Member
#2
Hope ya don't mind an answer from a Yank... :)

Support vehicle on an Iron Butt ride? I don't think I've ever heard of it being done. That's not to say it's not possible to do, but the spirit of the ride says that you've had no external help or assistance in accomplishing the ride. The generic rules for the SS1000M/1600K rides are here: http://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/ssseries/

Therefore, all that person could do is take pictures. No helping you or any of the other riders get fuel, get food, etc. *unless* there's an issue which would require that rider to excuse themselves from the ride.

Is this a first-time attempt from you and the other riders? If so, I'm sure one of the local IBA/FarRiders members will chime in here with additional details.

Luck to you!
 

Ira

Staff member
Premier Member
IBR Finisher
IBR Staff
#3
Hi guys, I am being my usual pain in the rear but I am having a bit of trouble finding the actual rules for the rides, a small group of us, so far a confirmed trio but may get bigger. Anyway we have had a person who wants to travel along with us in asort of support vehicle, this is in case a bike may break down, this can allow the other riders to continue without abandoning our brother or sister, as with so many other groups we don't leave anyone behind unassisted, also he wants to take a few pictures along the way for our own gallery. So is this permitted at all or does this have other ramifications to those taking part in the challenge? we are looking at this maybe in the late Feb to early to mid March, and we want to make sure we don't stuff it up on our first attempt.
Although it's not common, there is no rule prohibiting a chase vehicle.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 

Clive Rand

Premier Member
#5
One of our team has stated clearly that we are nuts for trying the ride, but says he will gladly drive one way, and we enjoy teasing the hell out of him for it, he is more concerned about leaving a rider stranded on the side of the road, while most riders I know would also stop their attempt rather than leave a friend behind, our friend is sying he wants those who set out to do the challenge not feel so bad for continuing after one of the team has broken down, and he says it should be a good opportunity for some really good pictures as well. As for nationality of riders We don't have a problem with that, we have a belief that if you ride we have something to talk about, and you may be in another country, a lot of your experience is very valuable, so kwthom, we love to hear from you as well. Our merry little group is 1 very young rider, one middle age rider, and me the older rider. I thank you all for your assistance, it is making our planning so much easier, I suppose my biggest problem is I am not tech minded, so navigating some things are simple to some, but can be quite a challenge for me.
 

Clive Rand

Premier Member
#6
Clive,
Please refer to your previous post here https://forum.ironbutt.org/index.php?threads/a-place-to-discuss-your-upcoming-rides.1126/ regarding the rule requirements for rides and a link provided to assist you. I am reading that you still cannot find the actual rule requirements, please look here SaddleSore Km Series and Bun Burner Km Series
Enjoy your ride :)
This is a massive help for some reason I have been having trouble le finding a lot of things, so please forgive me if I am not quite on the ball, I decided to open a thread of my own so I can track my chain of thought a bit easier.
 

Rusjel

Premier Member
#7
Isn't the point of some rides to do it on your own and others to do in relationship with others?

Your chase guy isn't helping you to complete the ride, he's helping you in the event you can't.

You have your rules based answer from the people that know, now go enjoy your mates and the ride.
 

Grey Gentry

Premier Member
#8
Just remember the "chase vehicle" is going to have to do the ride with you. Distance time route etc. He still has to keep up with you, if he's to be any
assistance.
If you are well planned and prepared, then you will have no need for a support vehicle. Sure things can go wrong, but insurance, and breakdown assistance, will take care of that.
The driver is giving up an opportunity to ride? Hmmmm.
 

Skidoo

Administrator
Premier Member
#9
What a great way to spend time with some mates.

Just one word of caution, when riding relatively long distances in one hit, always ensure that the slowest rider is riding to his ability and fatigue level. From experience, without actively monitoring from the lead rider, often the rider at the rear dosent want to let his buddies down and may push himself into a potentially dangerous fatigue level instead of having a breather.

Roadside assistance offered by NRMA and other bodies offered assistance however read the fine print. Often our rides are well beyond what they cover.

There is heaps of experience on the site, do your research, plan breaks and have a ball!
 

Clive Rand

Premier Member
#10
hehehe our chase guy has given himsilf a name that we joke around with, he claims he is quite happy being a jelly butt rider, he doesn't want to do the ride on a bike because he has a few issues with his back, and cannot do it on a bike, and he is relatively new to riding, we have on just got him riding to the state speed limit, but he can travel the distances in a car because he can sit back into the seat of a car and change his posistion, our youngest member that is going to give it a go, is typical of young people willing to have a go and is full of himself and thinks he is indestructable, he is a good rider though, but not yet done too many long distance rides, and not against the clock. He has not got any roadside insurance yet, we have advised him to do so, and he says he will get it when the day comes to challenge himself, our second rider is a loverly lady who has plenty of long distance rides under her belt, she has roadside assist, and she is not going anywhere without it, it was her that put the idea into our heads to have a go, she was originally going to have a go at it on her own, she is no stranger to doing 100,000Km per year, and has always wanted to do this challenge and has decided to do it in 2018, so we chatted about it, and I thought it would be good to challenge myself to have a go against the clock, I have ridden from my home in Rockhampton to Cairns, or to Melbourne a few times and inland to Mount Isa, but never against the clock, this is why we decided to plan a route that would be benificial to all of us, I also have roadside assist with HOGs, our motorcycle association is Australia wide, and we got on the subject at a rally in a tiny place called Appletree Creek, Qld, we were actually discussing a ride to Uluru that our association does bi-annually. So we are going to start at the location of a lady rider in Colac in Victoria, riding along the motorways where we can to keep our legal pace a bit higher, and finish in our home town of Rockhampton, I have joined the forum as I have always got extremely valuable information from forums in the past. I am getting a lot of information from here also, and I am conveying that to the rest of our team as I become aware of it. We do have another 3 members who are thinking about it, but as yet have not decided to commit to it yet, that is our little bit of a story.
 

kwthom

Rider
Premier Member
IBA Member
#11
Skidoo brings up a salient point about 'pace'. It's something you and the rest of the crew - and the support driver - may want to consider before this challenge. It's not how fast you go, but how efficient you will be at stops. The fact you and the ride party is considering attempting two concurrent rides (Saddlesore and Bun Burner) may be taking a bigger bite than you could comfortably chew - if you get my meaning.

In particular the young rider may already have the misconception that speed is going to help them. As you know, nothing further from the truth - again, back to that 'pace' of a ride.

Finally, a good saying amongst the IBA faithful - "Plan the Ride, then Ride the Plan!"

Again, good luck!
 

Rusjel

Premier Member
#12
Sounds good Clive, forgive me for stating the obvious, but are you planning to ride a bit together before the run?

I have ridden with some fantastic long distance riders whom I really respect, but sometimes our rhythms just don't work well together and you finish up wearing on each other all day. Apart from everything else, monitoring and adjusting your pace to suit the group and manage differing expectations increases your fatigue.

Of course having people that ride together well is a true joy and I am fortunate to have some wonderful riding mates. I hope you do too.

You may find that by riding together enough you can all make an adjustment that will make things work more smoothly on the run.
 

Skidoo

Administrator
Premier Member
#13
. . . In particular the young rider may already have the misconception that speed is going to help them. As you know, nothing further from the truth - again, back to that 'pace' of a ride.
. . .
Again, good luck!
So true kwthorn, many an IBA ride including numerous 50cc's have been completed on bikes barely capable of achieving let alone sitting on the posted speed limit. Planning, minimal fuel stop times (sub 6 mins is achievable) and riding the plan is the key!


Sounds good Clive, forgive me for stating the obvious, but are you planning to ride a bit together before the run?

I have ridden with some fantastic long distance riders whom I really respect, but sometimes our rhythms just don't work well together and you finish up wearing on each other all day. Apart from everything else, monitoring and adjusting your pace to suit the group and manage differing expectations increases your fatigue.

. . .
Excellently points Rusjel and so true. Pushing personal boundaries with other riders that have yet developed synergy has substantial risks.

In saying that there is nothing better than shaing a ride with a mate/s.
 

Clive Rand

Premier Member
#14
We have ridden before on a number of times, and we intend to ride together a lot more, the young lad and myself ride a lot together, and we get along well together. I have tried my bike on the highways and freeways of Australia, and learned that my bike is probably the heaviest on fuel, and I have worked out our fuel stops as to what my bike uses. I did consider a long range aux fuel tank, but realized that if I am the only one that has it, then it really doesn't help me at all. I also thought of the motorways as a way of avoiding our wildlife. The route is not final yet as we are still debating on whether it is not suited to all of us, but at the moment we are agreed that it is our best route so far. I realise also that speed is not the answer, according to our planned route it will get us over the line without the need to go over the speed limits with plenty of time on our hands if we use it wisely, we have acknowledged that the 3 of us committing ourselves to the ride have 3 different ways of thinking, and we do need to address that along the way., even the idea of stopping at fuel stops because we get held up in traffic and loose time and fuel getting through the cities for example, the young guy we call Screwy wants to blast along in a straight line until the road runs out,not really thinking if fuel stops are open when we get there. Donna would prefer to avoid cities at all costs, and prefers to travel in much quieter roads and hopes if the fuel stops are closed at certain times we may get there within open hours when we get there. I prefer to stay on major roadways because there is fuel stops at fairly regular intervals, and usually open 24/7 the downfall of my plan is Motorways do not go all the way to where we are intending to go, therfore we finish almost 30% of our ride on inland roads with at least 1 fuel stop in question about our making it there before it closes, so far our plan has us leaving around 03:00hrs, and arriving at our SS1600 end location around 21:00hrs. According to our times if we continued we would be stopped a few hours later at a small town fuel for 4 hours until that station re opened, so we are considering having a rest break for those few hours after completing the SS1600 so we can arrive at that particular station when it is open, Donna does not like to carry extra fuel on her bike, she feels it is not safe, and so we decided we had best follow her ideas and try and work around that problem, on our last leg, the second last fuel stop, closes around 21:00hrs and re opens at 05:00hrs and it is a critical stop as I am sure I would not make it the extra 80Km to the last fuel stop before we reach our home town, then the very last fuel stop at our designated finishing point.
 

kwthom

Rider
Premier Member
IBA Member
#16
I'm hopeful you'll realize that we are the worst when it comes to helping a rider achieve this goal! We're also going to be the most helpful and perhaps the most critical when it comes to the adage, "Don't be a dolt and do the same mistakes I made!" in getting started in this activity.

Our predecessors did a fantastic job in documenting the do's and don'ts of this in much of the literature you've been provided links to.

Take some time to be with friends and family this holiday season...we'll do the same here!
 

Clive Rand

Premier Member
#17
Hello everyone I am back now, I hope you all had a pleasurable break, we have been discussing aux fuel for our attempt, but it seems I am the only one interested in this idea, so I have decided if I am the only one doing it, it isn't going to be a good idea because I will still have to stop when the rest do, we have considered the idea that we may have bitten off a tad more than we can chew doing 2 rides in one, but we have decided to aim high, who knows we might just make it through both, if not at least we should be able to complete at least one of them, also about the pace side of things, we are not going for any land speed records, we are planning the ride to sit on our legal limits where possible, and although it may not mean a great deal at the end of the day, that extra 10Kph on some of those trips does help a tad, I am not sure if I am doing the right thing just yet, but I have worked out a little bit of a schedule to ride to, and I have allowed 20 minutes at each of our stops, I know this may seem a really long time for some of you, but if we have allocated that time for refueling and we are out of there sooner, then our time can only get better as we progress along our route, I figured if we get to a petrol station and it is busy then we can burn valuable time waiting to pay for the fuel, filling out the log sheet and a couple of photo's of where we are, 20 minutes can go past quite quickly, while other places may only take a couple of minutes to get everything done, and we can be back on our way again. I have downloaded waze into my phone and I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, I have fitted a new Navman to the bike now so hopefully it will help us out if we manage to get to a place we haven't been before, I just have to remember that a place in Qld called Kyogle, for some reason all GPS units want to take me there. GPS mount.jpg
 

Rusjel

Premier Member
#18
I like your thinking with the break budget, you should be able to save at least a few minutes per stop if you don't Faff around.

As a guide, if I fill straight away, do my paperwork, do a quick check over the bike, down an ice coffee and take a whizz that's 12 minutes. Others here can do much better than that, but 10 minute stops are achievable without too much effort.

Looking back at a fairly basic IBA run, the last memorial ride, I took 17:30 to complete a 1630km run. That's with fairly relaxed stops like the ones detailed above. Some of the riders here would be able to halve my stopped time (1:30) but a pretty efficient run, where your overall average is within 10k of your moving average is possible with reasonable effort and still retain time to smell a rose or two.

Good luck!
 
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Gatey

Premier Member
IBA Member
#19
Well clive ive read about a couple of posts and really mate? You dont need this f €_%=÷××₩ case/support vehicle. You just dont need it. If your mate thinks your mad alls good and you fellas left over go ride.if your mates in a group and one breKs down then maybe his mate will stay and assist. The whole snowdall doea not nor should it crush their own goals. This is not 1909 in the Antarctic mate. Its just a ride pn a few bikes a bit further than normal.
Just get those few bods who want and read the rules. Plot an out and back with 80 or so ectra ks and get on with it.
Please dont inadvertantly think this is rude of me. We just, i just like simple extreme.
 

Grey Gentry

Premier Member
#20
With regards to doing two rides in one, I had a look at a route from Colac to Rockhampton by Googlemaps. It basically takes the major highways all the way. This may not be your route, but using that as a base, the time frame looks good. To secure the SS1600 I'd stop to finish that off at at Coffs Harbour, have a few hours kip, then continue on. SS1600 done in 24...followed by 900km in 12 hours.
Hope you get the idea.

As others have mentioned fuel stops need to be planned. Having a social natter can cost you time, so minimize them. Practice them.

The chase vehicle could be a hindrance. What if it hits a 'roo or is involved in an accident? What if it doesn't turn up when expected? Out of phone contact? Now you're concerned about something else on the ride. I'm sure you have modern bikes, so it should not be an issue. A couple of years I rode my '86 Kawasaki 1000GTR to Alice Springs. Marls jumped on the back and we rode a BB2500G. Not an issue.
And the bikes will leave the chase vehicle behind in the traffic, due to the easy of overtaking. It's just something else to worry about. A chain hanging around your neck, dragging you down. Get rid of it.