Tube Tires

[mcb2]

Hi All

I have been out of the hobby for a few years and I'm just now getting back into it. I have several IBA certs from around 8 or 9 years ago, but around that time my first daughter was born and I was having a hard time justifying being out on the road for days at a time riding while my wife was at home with our baby. I sold the bike and haven't really ridden since. Fast forward to today, now I've got the bug again. I did most of my rides on a Vstrom 650, but I've also had an FJR and a Honda ST1300. While the Yamaha and the ST were great bikes, I was always more comfortable on the Vstrom. Now that I'm getting back into the hobby I've been looking at the Honda Africa Twin, as it feels very similar to the DL650, which I was extremely comfortable on. I am looking at the base model because I know I will need to modify it to meet my needs, and I don't really want to buy the ADV model just to have to take stuff off of it. The problem I have is with the tube tires on the base AT. My riding style is 95 percent highway but I am planning a haul road trip as well as a dempster trip in the next few years. My question is, are the tube tires anything to be concerned about doing LD rides on the highway at highway speeds? I really enjoy riding in West Texas where the speed limit is 80 mph. I know that tubes are heavier and run hotter, etc, but do I need to worry about tubes in general? Will they hold up to extended 1000+ mile days on the highway? The Honda AT seems like a great fit for me physically, and I really can't justify the extra dollars spent for the ADV model to get the tubeless tires unless they are a real problem for my type of riding.

Thoughts? Opinions?
Thanks,
Morgan

 

[EricV]

Tubes are tubes. If you want to stop, remove a wheel, break the bead and pull out the tube to repair it or replace it when you get a flat, get a bike with tubes. If you want to fix the flat w/o doing all that in 10 minutes or less, stick with tubeless tire bikes.

The AT is a solid bike, but it's a poor choice for LD riding in general. You don't buy a bike for a couple of trips. The 21" front wheel on the AT is not very friendly for on road use. It wanders more, especially in grooved or uneven pavement at highway speeds. It's great for off pavement riding. However, the Haul Road or Dempster is not true off road, it's gravel and mud of varying levels. And you didn't even mention the chain final drive, another poor choice for an LD bike. Sure, lots of people do that, it's still a poor choice. If you're buying a bike specifically to do LD riding with, go with tubeless tires OEM and shaft drive.

I would suggest you consider finding a Yamaha Super Tenere to test ride. Do test ride an AT as well. And make sure you get them both out on the interstate so you see for yourself what the different wheel sizes translate to in feel, for you.

Realistically, there isn't any reason to really narrow your options to ADV style bikes just because you want to do the Haul Road and Dempster. People ride them every year on Harleys and Goldwings along with most anything else with two wheels.

From what you said, being more comfortable on the DL650 over the ST1300 or FJR, you're really saying you're more comfortable on a smaller, lighter bike, not that you're more comfortable on a tall, skinny bike. The new 650 Vstrom has dual disk front brakes and other improvements. I had an '09 DL650A for a year or so. It's brakes were a weak point, coming off a Super Ten. You might also look at the Suzuki 1050. The XT models do have tubeless wire spoke wheels. I dislike the silly fascination with wire spoke wheels that is a current trend.

 

[mcb2]

I put 65k miles on my DL650, and I thought it was great, but I always wanted something bigger. I like the ADV style bikes because of the ergonomics. The FJR and ST1300 never really felt right and no matter what I did to them they still weren't as comfortable as the DL650. I have not ridden an AT but I have sat on one and it is very comfortable. I honestly don't mind chain drive bikes. I went through three chains on the VStrom and other than spraying it down on 1000 mile days and after a wash or a wet ride they were pretty low maintenance. I also had a DL1000 that went up the haul road. I loved the extra power and how it loafed along on the highway, but I always wanted something more refined. The DL's are great bikes, I just wanted something different this time around.

I have been looking at the Super Tenere for years, but I saw that Yamaha is no longer making it past this year. You can still get one new, but I am a bit nervous about the parts availability in the future. Is this a valid concern? The SuperT really is the better platform to build on. I just need a bike to do several 1k+ mile consecutive 1k+ mile days and the ability to do some small rallies in the future. I know many bikes can be made to do this, but I'd like to start with a solid platform. I don't see myself doing the IBR in the future, but I do love to ride and I'd love to do stuff like the East-West Challenge, and the 50CC challenge.

 

[Hairymcsweary]

Tubes aren't a hassle as long as you get comfortable with changing the tyres yourself. I've put 75K kms on a Triumph Tiger 800XCx, 30K kms of those have been IBA rides. I've had one puncture so far while completing a SS3000K Gold, was back on the road within 50 mins. I carry a set of Motion Pro bead breakers, a spare 21" tube, a little bottle of dishwashing liquid and a mini compressor. The 21" tube can be used in the 17" rear.
The ergonomics of a ADV bike suit me well.

 

[EricV]

Where did you read that the Super Tenere is being discontinued? (got a link?) That rumor has floated around every year for the last 8 years or so and the bikes are still here. The EU may stop seeing them due to the next level of Euro emission standards, but that remains to be seen. Parts won't be an issue with 12 years of bikes out in the market. Most companies carry parts for bikes for at least 10 years after production ceases. And the aftermarket is very strong. I put 109k on my first '12 model, which now has over 140k miles on it with the second owner. My '15 I only put about 50k miles on. (I put 160k on my '04 FJR before the STens, so I'm familiar with both platforms.)

If you've been up the Haul road... Why would you do it again? There is literally nothing in Prudhoe Bay.

At the end of the day, ride some different bikes and find what you like best. Tubes aren't an issue for LD or any other riding, just take longer for flat repair. I personally don't buy bikes with tubes. Tubeless is just too easy to work with. For LD riding, I would not buy a chain drive bike either, but for me LD riding was more rally riding than cert riding. You can always ride a cert ride another day. In the middle of a rally, you can't afford to lose an ~hour and maintain your plan. Especially shorter ones.

 

[mcb2]

I'm looking into the BMW GSA now. It is unfortunate as the SuperT really is the best option for the money. The GSA is a great and bike, but I feel like I get 90 percent of the capability that matters to me from the Super Tenere at a much lower cost.

 

[mcb2]

Where did you read that the Super Tenere is being discontinued? (got a link?) That rumor has floated around every year for the last 8 years or so and the bikes are still here. The EU may stop seeing them due to the next level of Euro emission standards, but that remains to be seen. Parts won't be an issue with 12 years of bikes out in the market. Most companies carry parts for bikes for at least 10 years after production ceases. And the aftermarket is very strong. I put 109k on my first '12 model, which now has over 140k miles on it with the second owner. My '15 I only put about 50k miles on. (I put 160k on my '04 FJR before the STens, so I'm familiar with both platforms.)

If you've been up the Haul road... Why would you do it again? There is literally nothing in Prudhoe Bay.

At the end of the day, ride some different bikes and find what you like best. Tubes aren't an issue for LD or any other riding, just take longer for flat repair. I personally don't buy bikes with tubes. Tubeless is just too easy to work with. For LD riding, I would not buy a chain drive bike either, but for me LD riding was more rally riding than cert riding. You can always ride a cert ride another day. In the middle of a rally, you can't afford to lose an ~hour and maintain your plan. Especially shorter ones.

Well now that I'm looking, I can find several articles saying that the FJR and the Super10 will be discontinued, but it looks to be just speculation. I guess nothing has been actually published by Yamaha confirming this. Mostly they are speculating that low sales for the Super10 and the new Euro standards will lead Yamaha to discontinue the model.

 

[EricV]

MCN is just a bunch of hacks pounding out articles. And that article is completely about Euro5 standards and how they impact countries that use Euro5 standards. The US does not use Euro5 standards and no where have I seen any indication that Yamaha will stop selling the FJR or Super Ten in the US. As I said before, we go through this every year and the bikes are still here.

 

[EricV]

I'm looking into the BMW GSA now. It is unfortunate as the SuperT really is the best option for the money. The GSA is a great and bike, but I feel like I get 90 percent of the capability that matters to me from the Super Tenere at a much lower cost.

I've had a '16 GSA and a both Gens of Super Tenere in the garage and put miles on both. I'm curious what the 10% capability is that you feel you'd be missing from the Super Ten.

 

[mcb2]

The GSA's have the crashbars, skid plate, and luggage rack included as well as a bigger tank. That's really about it for me, however these items don't justify the extra 10k that the GSA's cost new. The fuel capacity is relatively easy to remedy, and the crashbars/skidplate/luggage rack is about $2000 maximum. I'll reconsider the Tenere as you are correct, it seems that the reports of them being discontinued look to be pure speculation.

 

[EricV]

What you may not know is that the factory crash bars on GS/A bikes do not protect the heads in a drop or crash. The valve cover hits the ground before the bars do. Many add extra covers or change to a different brand of bars because of this. The OEM skid plates are a pain in the butt to remove for oil changes too. The aftermarket ones are nearly all easier to live with and protect better. The extra ~2 gallons of fuel is nice sometimes, but doesn't cancel out the higher cost of maintenance and parts for the BMW, imho. The BMW luggage racks come in two flavors on some of the bikes, a plastic version and a metal version. The metal version is quite stout. Unless you're going to run the very expensive BMW metal panniers, you may want a better rack anyway.

Don't get me wrong, the GS is a feature rich and fun to ride bike. But having dealt with both of them for years, the Super Ten was a lot less expensive to own and maintain. Some feel it seems boring, but the reality is it just does everything you ask of it w/o drama.

edit - Forgot to add that the Super Ten's luggage rack is quite strong and with the two piece seat you can remove the pillion seat & the factory spacer under the luggage rack and you have a nice long luggage platform.

 

[mcb2]

This is great info. Thanks Eric. I've got a lot to consider. I had very mixed feelings about getting into a GSA. I love the way they ride, but I really had some issues with the price of the bike as well as the cost of maintenance. I typically do most of the maintenance myself on my other bikes but with the BMW I would have likely had the dealership do any maintenance more complicated than an oil FD fluid change.
I have always liked Japanese bikes for their reliability, and relatively low maintenance cost.

 

[Rusjel]

O.k, I’ll add my subjective two cents as some subjective opinions are being expressed.

firstly, modern 21” front wheel adventure bikes handle surprisingly well on bitumen these days and modern adventure tires give both good wet and dry grip and reasonable wear. You will still be changing tires more often than you would with a pure touring tire, but you pick your compromises I guess. The extra capability once to hit the gravel is pretty handy too. Your stated usage is 95/5 road/gravel, so you probably have to ask yourself if that’s enough dirt usage to justify the compromise.

Second, I find the Africa Twin to be a very comfortable touring bike. The upright riding position, reasonable weather protection and don’t forget much lighter weight than a full tourer make adventure bikes in general and ATs in particular, great distance riding bikes.

Third, tubes. More inconvenient than tubeless, but will still easily do IBA length rides. I’ve done several on a 955 Triumph Tiger with no issues. When I was in a hurry Motul spray cans of fix a flat certainly got me home or to my next stop without having to change the tube.

if you are really concerned about tubes, check out this product: https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/tires-and-wheels/nuetech-tubliss-gen-2.0-(tubeless)-tire-system-p

So now you can run a tube type tire with tubeless repair convenience. Caveat: I haven’t tried these myself, but I do know a few who have and the product gets great support.

all the best!