It's Time to Start Talking, Muster, Certifications.

Grey Gentry

Premier Member
#1
I realize the travel restrictions are horrendous and volatile at the moment. But we need to have a plan. It can be changed as needed, just like a ride plan. Where are we up to? Location? Certification? Do we need to reintroduce the self certification for this ride? If that is acceptable as it was before, then why can it not be for all Australian rides?
 

Skidoo

Administrator
Premier Member
#2
I realize the travel restrictions are horrendous and volatile at the moment. But we need to have a plan. It can be changed as needed, just like a ride plan. Where are we up to? Location? Certification? Do we need to reintroduce the self certification for this ride? If that is acceptable as it was before, then why can it not be for all Australian rides?

Things are volatile globally to say the least Ron.

Things were looking up until recently, and yes we have been working in the background and just waiting for the right moment to republish the venue etc.

Regarding certification. I wrote to Mike recently asking about local Australian certification. As you are aware much robust discussion has occurred over the last 4 musters regarding same.

I am optimistic we will receive a favourable reply as we have achieved great things over the last 4 years including:
- our memorial site
- creation of numerous specific Australian rides
- our riders completing some mammoth rides
- proven solid foundation
- excellent international support

Unfortunately, things are unstable globally currently so a reply may take time. As soon as we get an answer we will pass it on.
 

Gatey

Premier Member
IBA Member
#4
Covid and stupid only effects/infects living matter.
Could Mike just send an email (which Im lead to believe is not at all prone to Covid infection...) granting Australian certification powers?
Mate its been bashed about since 2007. 14 years now.
Karl you missed the excellent work of all the IBR riders in your list mate.

I'm posting in support of the OP. Im posting in support of the work IBAAustralia has done and Im doing my best to post in support of IBA.
Mike Kneebone please just let us get on with the job. Grant us the full monty on certification powers for Australia.
Please.
Its Time.
 

Fransvdm

Premier Member
#5
South Africa has been certified their rides for many years. It is also my understanding that there are countries in Europe that do their own certification. My last certificate came from New Zealand.

It is beyond my understanding why we can't do our own certifications here, like other countries. I feel like we're not trustworthy.
 
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Biggles

Premier Member
#6
We have a solid core of riders who have Ironbutt Rally cred as the cream on our cake, but below that there are, as mentioned, many international scale Australian rides completed, including Fatman and Lynne's lap. And they're not the only ones who've got that on their CV. Add in plenty of CC50s and CCC100s. There's even a bunch of old fart plebs like me who have more than the minimum number of rides to get the fabled number.
Without doing the required digging through the online database, I'd reckon on a population basis, IBA Oz would rank pretty highly in the country stakes.
Hence it begs the question: just what do we have to do to earn the right already granted to other countries to have local experts certify our rides?
Are there exams Skidoo and TJ have to sit to demonstrate their grasp of the certification process? If so, bring it on, because I have a feeling they've seen enough IBA rides to know what one looks like.
 

Kimmie

Well-Known Member
#7
I don't post often and have only completed 3 IBA rides and the effort in submitting the paperwork is just as hard as the ride itself.....then the waiting time is as everyone has said - long.

If other countries ie NZ have managed to grasp the authority of the IBA to certify rides why can't we.

Is there an "education course" required to be completed to deem those secret folk who verify/certify then let us know. I for one would be more than happy to assist with this process, sit the education process.

Understand that the people verifying these rides probably have other employment and doing a rider certification can take time but folk waiting 19 months & 2 years for a certificate isn't acceptable.
 

Fatman

Well-Known Member
#8
Good point Ron, where are we up to with the certification process being here in Aust?

It seems to me that the time is right for us to get local certification happening. I know Howard has done a great job over the years and I am very grateful to him for his help on many issues that have arisen over the past years, from lost mail to correcting incorrect information on the printed certificates, all of which makes it very frustrating from a riders point of view. I feel the international mail system is a big weak link in the chain causing many delays or even worse losses of the certificates. By doing the certification here would surely make the turn around shorter and less chance of mail going astray.
 

Rusjel

Premier Member
#9
I'm broadly for this, with some caveats.

The advantages are obvious and I think we have earned the right to do our own certifications.

The only thing to consider, in my opinion, is the size of our collective pool of distance riders.

We have already seen the downside when someone sets themselves up as the sole arbiter of a distance riding group. I have no doubt that sort of thing would never happen with TJ and Karl, but we owe it to ourselves to make the process of local certification as robust as possible, multiple sets of eyes etc etc.

Karl and TJ and the team have done an amazing job so I wouldn't presume to lecture them on what that process should look like, just that one is in place. We are a small parochial group with some complex history in our dealings with the IBA. That means what we set up has to be well organised, squeaky clean and accountable.

Completely agree with the comments about NZ. They are even smaller than us, but seem to have respect from the big dogs.

But with those things in place, bring it on!
 

kwaka

Premier Member
#11
Without dwelling too much on the past, perhaps the decoupling of Australia IBA from FR has had a detrimental affect with regards to SC (self certification) and Mike has taken a wait and see approach.

@Kimmie: re. training. If one has the skill to use a spreadsheet and tell the time to work out the time/distance equation, one is more than qualified. The only training involved was Mike's approval/vetting.

As Ox has pointed out above, it's our numbers that let us down or I should say and more accurately, the vast distances that separate us. If all the Oz IBA membership were say within the boundary of the ACT or a city, I'm sure our participation levels would be a whole lot higher.

Still, this shouldn't stop or negate self-certification. Nor do I think that there is shortage of "eyes" or skilled verifiers because when I took up the reins for IBA Oz (i.e. after Davo) so many of you contacted me to offer your support (even financial) in any capacity to continue especially, with regards to SC. Further, there is a very passionate base of LD riders here that as I've said, are more than willing to go above and beyond puts us in good stead for the future.

Most will know I have always supported SC so-much-so that my last IBA ride (back in Sep 2019) is sitting in the drawer waiting for that day to come. I've already placed an embargo upon myself from riding any further IBA ride until such time as we are approved to SC.

I believe SC will be a great boost for all of us.
Take care,
Bazz
 

kwaka

Premier Member
#13
No Ron, that's is not what I mean mate. I mean all Australia IBA members.
GTR-AUS may have been the launching pad to which FR became the defacto IBA Australia group but that is not what I meant.
Am thinking back to the inaugural Muster at Parkes, be good if we had those numbers roll up for our rallies and musters.
 

Gatey

Premier Member
IBA Member
#15
No Ron, that's is not what I mean mate. I mean all Australia IBA members.
GTR-AUS may have been the launching pad to which FR became the defacto IBA Australia group but that is not what I meant.
Am thinking back to the inaugural Muster at Parkes, be good if we had those numbers roll up for our rallies and musters.
Bazz and community the drop off attendances to each following IBA Australia Muster is directly related to the number of participants that did the ride as per plan and then found no certificate on the day.
Its started with two then and by Mansfield only 5 or 6 certificates actually got presented. To my Knowledge those whom pulled the pin on all those Muster ride plan never matched and was much much less than the number of missing certificates.
Its really no surprise that riders have lost the drive. I warned of this very issue 3 years back. I posted my concerns back then and reiterated at the mid point of 2020. Many other IBA rides are lodged each year with varying degrees of satisfaction.
As for the FR thing. The greater bulk of IBA Australia members moved on from that time ages ago. Bloody years ago.
So one or two lone wolves howl on the odd occasion. They did before that time. They created that time.
Lets perhaps make it very clear.
The disturbance of emotion back at that time has past. Its Passed.
IBA Australia has developed and grown and ....we are talking here about a different entity.
Vast distances is what the game is about Bazz

Boys and girls you can play in any bike group you like. You can be stoic and patriotic of all your interests.
This topic is about IBA Austral and its goal of local certification of the full platter of IBA rides.
Nothing more.
 

Grey Gentry

Premier Member
#16
Yes Gatey has a point regarding the Muster and certification. Although Marls and I did a certifiable SS1600 to Mansfield, we did not present the plan prior to the ride, so the certificates could be printed. I've not bothered to present the ride for certification. As I have one long term certification outstanding, I cannot see any point in torturing myself by submitting any further rides. If it was knocked back, then I could use the Paypal credit to submit a another one.
 

kwaka

Premier Member
#17
Vast distances is what the game is about Bazz
Yes of course it is Gatey. My point is, we can't just duck out for a quick Sunday latte GTG anytime we feel like it.

Certificate issues aside, I'm sure we are all aware how taxing a muster is when coupled with an Iron Butt ride attempt. LDR takes a large slice of time from of our lives, our meets even more so. Not all of us are diehard LD riders.
 

Gatey

Premier Member
IBA Member
#18
Bazz this may come as a surprise to you. You are one of the hard core.
What s "our meets even more so. "Mean? What meets. We have not had one gtg ride in 3 or 4 years.
No Rices rissole rides or any other group catch up since Mansfield years ago...not the last muster dont get these two events mixed up guys.
I agree mate none of us can just duck out for a quick Sunday latte any time we feel like it.
We are talking here about Certifications being handled here and getting a muster going.

Look mate each and all of us will make a choice at the right time as too how we progress in our LDR careers.
Me mate Ive made a choice and for me musters will be the only r
LD ride Ill bother with and it wont be documented or submitted which is as per the current attendance structure outlined for the 2020 muster.

You and I and guys like us have varyiing degrees of responsibility to help get this over the line.
Im sure we will each do our best to help.
Now I have to go my MS girl needs a chat.
All the best mate.
 

kwaka

Premier Member
#19
Bazz this may come as a surprise to you. You are one of the hard core.
Like you say, we all make a choice about LD riding.
What s "our meets even more so. "Mean? What meets. We have not had one gtg ride in 3 or 4 years.

Meets = Any LDR ride/meet that our Admin Team or the membership organize including:-
Musters
Memorial Rides
ACT Insanity
100 Yrs of Armistice
Dedications
GTG
Etc, etc, etc...

I used GTG as a broad term to encompass all the above. Unfortunately, without visual cues and spelling out every last detail, posts can be interpreted incorrectly or too literally.
Like I have as I've taken the thread title literally: It's Time to Start Talking, Muster, Certifications. I see this as three separate items on the agenda i.e.,

Start Talking = it's been too quiet in here. Thanks COVID and, my best guess, Socials.
Muster = no doubt the Admin Team are dictated by CV19 events on how this will pan out for this year.
Certifications = the ultimate old chestnut but all good things come, eventually.
 

Gatey

Premier Member
IBA Member
#20
Ah ok. Three separate and different items not at all connected.
I see.

Ron Im sorry it would seem I have not read your topic correctly.
Please forgive me Bazz and Ron.
Situation normal then?