Here is a link on the IBA site regarding claiming rides within rides http://www.ironbutt.com/themerides/nesting.html
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Naracoorte SA Muster 2020
Location: Narocoorte SA
Date: 4th April 2020
Registrations closed 4 Feburary 2020.
"Nesting" Rides - rides within rides
- Thread starter tj189
- Start date
Hi All..my thinking on nesting rides is that if you have completed the lower distance ride already and its parked in your CV , Why bother tying up the certifiers time and yours also unless you are going for some of the bigger bronze/silver etc certificates. When tagging along with the "heavies" last week to Hay i completed my next level ss2000 and probably may have been entitled to claim a second ss1600 but why bother..my nxt level is the 2500/36 hours gig and thats all i will claim..this is just my personal take on this and other ironbutters may need the nesting rides f or other reasons..then go for it..cheers and yippee..see you at Renmark..jn
The nesting of rides seems to be somewhat controversial, Ive read lots of opinion on it. If your going to do big miles and the opportunity to claim multiple certificates presents itself then I think that is reasonable,you have invested a lot of time and in most cases money, so may as well make the most of it,within reason. I think we all know when we are milking it. As I understand it multiple certifications within one ride start do not qualify for mile eater status , to do that, you just have to get out there and ride your bike when ever you can as often as you can, and accumulate.
Ron
This is not a good comparison.
If you ride say 2500km in 24 hours within a 50CC, then it is an achievement stand alone on itself and worthy of a certificate. You could have ridden the 50cc in 2 days at 1950km each day if you chose to do so.
The way Mike explained it to me was:
"You rode the 50CC and qualified for the certificate. Then you decided to continue riding and end up with a SS5000 in 3 days. Then you decided to continue and ended up with SS8000 in 5 days."
These could be seen as rides within a ride, although I do not see it that way. Each ride is an achievement.
This is not a good comparison.
If you ride say 2500km in 24 hours within a 50CC, then it is an achievement stand alone on itself and worthy of a certificate. You could have ridden the 50cc in 2 days at 1950km each day if you chose to do so.
The way Mike explained it to me was:
"You rode the 50CC and qualified for the certificate. Then you decided to continue riding and end up with a SS5000 in 3 days. Then you decided to continue and ended up with SS8000 in 5 days."
These could be seen as rides within a ride, although I do not see it that way. Each ride is an achievement.
Others have done that Peter, extended the ride. I have no issue with that. In Tassie, I turned an SS1600 into a SS2000, but never claimed the SS16, as only the SS16 was planned.
But there is no way I'd claim an SS2000, Coogee to Ceduna, when it's just a leg of a a target. However, I would claim that SS2000, if I didn't finish the 50CC. One could also claim an 2XSS1600s and finish a BB2500 on the second leg. But they weren't the target.
Frans, It is a perfect example.
Frans says "If you ride say 2500km in 24 hours within a 50CC, then it is an achievement stand alone on itself and worthy of a certificate. You could have ridden the 50cc in 2 days at 1950km each day if you chose to do so" I disagree Frans. Do you claim that if you do an SS2000, that claiming an SS1600 for the same ride is legitimate? I don't. I consider that leaching, because it was not the purpose of the ride.
Extending a ride, like Mike explained, makes perfect sense.
So reading between the lines, you're going to claim an SS1600, and an SS2000 on the Byron Bay to Ceduna leg?
And then extend the ride to Denman?
But there is no way I'd claim an SS2000, Coogee to Ceduna, when it's just a leg of a a target. However, I would claim that SS2000, if I didn't finish the 50CC. One could also claim an 2XSS1600s and finish a BB2500 on the second leg. But they weren't the target.
Frans, It is a perfect example.
Frans says "If you ride say 2500km in 24 hours within a 50CC, then it is an achievement stand alone on itself and worthy of a certificate. You could have ridden the 50cc in 2 days at 1950km each day if you chose to do so" I disagree Frans. Do you claim that if you do an SS2000, that claiming an SS1600 for the same ride is legitimate? I don't. I consider that leaching, because it was not the purpose of the ride.
Extending a ride, like Mike explained, makes perfect sense.
So reading between the lines, you're going to claim an SS1600, and an SS2000 on the Byron Bay to Ceduna leg?
And then extend the ride to Denman?
Ron
I don't know how you read my post, but I said I am planning a trans Australia quest from Byron Bay to Denham like others have done before.
Then I said I plan a couple of SS1600's to get to Katherine. Google say it's about 3269 km. (I won't be claiming these, just ride them).
Then with your permission I want to do a BBG1500 from Darwin to Glendambo. I then, with permission of course, want to extend the ride to do a centreline 36. Again with permission, I then plan to extend the ride to Melbourne. Is this ok??
Last time I checked I have done over 30 IBA rides. It's more now. I have 13 certificates, only the rides that I feel is important to me get certified. Ethan heart ride, scooter SS1600, not right riders SS1600, 50cc, SS8000, memorial ride, etc. other rides I don't even keep record on rides like Coober pedy to home which was a SS2000, or the SS1600 I did when skidoo and others went on the 50cc last year or the SS1600 I rode with the Spyder, etc.
I fail to see where you read between the lines that I plan to claim SS1600 and SS2000 on my way back o Ceduna. I was going to claim 1 ride only, Byron Bay to Denham, until someone mentioned the Darwin to Melbourne ride.
The purpose of this whole ride is to draw a line on my map between Perth and Darwin. There are photos of the map in the other thread.
Edit:
I made a terrible mistake in my post last night. I only have 11 certificates as per the photo below.
I think I need to ride more often
I don't know how you read my post, but I said I am planning a trans Australia quest from Byron Bay to Denham like others have done before.
Then I said I plan a couple of SS1600's to get to Katherine. Google say it's about 3269 km. (I won't be claiming these, just ride them).
Then with your permission I want to do a BBG1500 from Darwin to Glendambo. I then, with permission of course, want to extend the ride to do a centreline 36. Again with permission, I then plan to extend the ride to Melbourne. Is this ok??
Last time I checked I have done over 30 IBA rides. It's more now. I have 13 certificates, only the rides that I feel is important to me get certified. Ethan heart ride, scooter SS1600, not right riders SS1600, 50cc, SS8000, memorial ride, etc. other rides I don't even keep record on rides like Coober pedy to home which was a SS2000, or the SS1600 I did when skidoo and others went on the 50cc last year or the SS1600 I rode with the Spyder, etc.
I fail to see where you read between the lines that I plan to claim SS1600 and SS2000 on my way back o Ceduna. I was going to claim 1 ride only, Byron Bay to Denham, until someone mentioned the Darwin to Melbourne ride.
The purpose of this whole ride is to draw a line on my map between Perth and Darwin. There are photos of the map in the other thread.
Edit:
I made a terrible mistake in my post last night. I only have 11 certificates as per the photo below.
I think I need to ride more often
Last edited:
Im pretty much a targets sort of rider and in the past I've kept a fall back ride documentation up my sleeve...just in case,
Funny thing is even after lots of these scatter-gun interunivers target rides Im yet to actually go through the documentation pathway for any of those rides regardless of the total or the intermediat's. Some are in the 3600k area documented and just enjoyed.
Im going to say that this situation is more about not grasping a target in the first place EVEN thought the major milage was hit within the time frame go figure that out.
I cant be bothered with spending my time planning a "way out option" when routs is what counts at all times. Its one rout on one leg/ ride...and thats all thats important To Me.
Im looking at the post above and I personally think both riders by history are in agreement...strange as it may be. Nothing at all wrong with logging every leg. Thats how we each build our own ride data logger in the head and thats how rides develop and become intersting to others. I know both partys here and I respect them both just sayin.
Draw a line in your map Frans. Bloody fine to have developed your plan even down to a new bike to work with on this trip.
Ron mate Hows the tribe?
See everyones good
Funny thing is even after lots of these scatter-gun interunivers target rides Im yet to actually go through the documentation pathway for any of those rides regardless of the total or the intermediat's. Some are in the 3600k area documented and just enjoyed.
Im going to say that this situation is more about not grasping a target in the first place EVEN thought the major milage was hit within the time frame go figure that out.
I cant be bothered with spending my time planning a "way out option" when routs is what counts at all times. Its one rout on one leg/ ride...and thats all thats important To Me.
Im looking at the post above and I personally think both riders by history are in agreement...strange as it may be. Nothing at all wrong with logging every leg. Thats how we each build our own ride data logger in the head and thats how rides develop and become intersting to others. I know both partys here and I respect them both just sayin.
Draw a line in your map Frans. Bloody fine to have developed your plan even down to a new bike to work with on this trip.
Ron mate Hows the tribe?
See everyones good
Im going to post one thing extra and use a quote from Ron's post "But there is no way I'd claim an SS2000, Coogee to Ceduna, when it's just a leg of a a target.
How's that run in"a rally when the target may be days away and legs away.
Hows it run if for instance your target is as expansive as multiple BB's ? What if your mental and just start documenting BBG's having bosted a bout doing a couple then saying hells bells Im going for five in a row and then only do four...and a half and shit the bike in a ditch.
Both ends of the same bit of string and each of us will come to our own prefered choices at/in our own time.
How's that run in"a rally when the target may be days away and legs away.
Hows it run if for instance your target is as expansive as multiple BB's ? What if your mental and just start documenting BBG's having bosted a bout doing a couple then saying hells bells Im going for five in a row and then only do four...and a half and shit the bike in a ditch.
Both ends of the same bit of string and each of us will come to our own prefered choices at/in our own time.
Hi All..i think we are going sideways on this now..i am in Franz's camp in that i am going to collect milestone certificates but also think if i set out on a ss2000 and things go to the dogs and only managed to do 1600km i would consider claiming it..if you are a certicate collector then go for it ( i was a license collector in another life..from M113 armoured personnel carrier to private pilots licence) so i understand that..at the end of the day..as long as its fun and safe..its all good..cheers and yippee..jn
Frans, congratulations on your 30+ rides. I've no idea how many I've done. But I do know I've done some that have never been submitted, and I've done an SS1600 or better in every state/territory of Oz. I'm happy with that.
I do think you've misunderstood my post, but that's ok, maybe I wasn't clear.
Enjoy your upcoming ride.
I do think you've misunderstood my post, but that's ok, maybe I wasn't clear.
Enjoy your upcoming ride.
Everyone has their own view here.
At the end of the day thete ate many reasons some will seek certs for as many legs of a long ride as possible. Some won't. Regardless of your own opinion. If a rider documents every leg of a ride and goes to the trouble of sending it to be verified AND providing Mike and the team sign off on all legs. They are valid.
And if acumulation is the goal. Im all for it.
At the end of the day thete ate many reasons some will seek certs for as many legs of a long ride as possible. Some won't. Regardless of your own opinion. If a rider documents every leg of a ride and goes to the trouble of sending it to be verified AND providing Mike and the team sign off on all legs. They are valid.
And if acumulation is the goal. Im all for it.
The IBA Rules make sense to me. I would think that most reasonable people could interpret their intent. I've nested a Centreline 24 inside a 50CC and didn't feel the slightest bit guilty. Both of those were nested in an ss8000k which reflected the 5 day ride. It's simple enough to do an 8000k without riding a 50CC and you can most certainly (and probably should) do a 50CC without complicating it with a Centreline 24. Mike and the gang didn't have a problem with it, it's all within the rules.
Whatever way you look at it, it's still only one ride for Mile Eater Purposes. Choose any one.
Whether you like to collect and look at your certs on a wall, store them in a folder, keep piles of receipts not certified, or just remember the rides until you can't any more or a mix of all is a personal decision that doesn't really invite comment or deserve judgement by anyone else. The arbiters are the IBA and the care factor beyond that should be zero
Whatever way you look at it, it's still only one ride for Mile Eater Purposes. Choose any one.
Whether you like to collect and look at your certs on a wall, store them in a folder, keep piles of receipts not certified, or just remember the rides until you can't any more or a mix of all is a personal decision that doesn't really invite comment or deserve judgement by anyone else. The arbiters are the IBA and the care factor beyond that should be zero
This discussion has gone quiet already 2 weeks ago but allow me, if I may, a comment:
It seems to me the appropriate answer is right upfront. Constitutionalised if you will, by the very purpose of the mission at the onset: 'what is the objective?'. This gentry society of members came into being based on the Ironbutt Association Rules, to which we all subscribe. It requires compliance to a threshold, a minimum standard, but appears to be totally open-ended at the top allowing ample, even unlimited, space for wide and varied pursuits.
To me, TJ's moto rings ultimately true and I can see the wide open space for Fransvdm, Frog, Wombattle, John Negus - in no specific order - including the rest of you, and myself:
Riding motorcycles is not a socially conscious, politically correct, or even logical endeavor. If you are going to do it. If you are going to chase the horizon it must not be a competition, it must not be an adrenaline fueled activity, it must be a passion." selil, April 2016
It seems to me the appropriate answer is right upfront. Constitutionalised if you will, by the very purpose of the mission at the onset: 'what is the objective?'. This gentry society of members came into being based on the Ironbutt Association Rules, to which we all subscribe. It requires compliance to a threshold, a minimum standard, but appears to be totally open-ended at the top allowing ample, even unlimited, space for wide and varied pursuits.
To me, TJ's moto rings ultimately true and I can see the wide open space for Fransvdm, Frog, Wombattle, John Negus - in no specific order - including the rest of you, and myself:
Riding motorcycles is not a socially conscious, politically correct, or even logical endeavor. If you are going to do it. If you are going to chase the horizon it must not be a competition, it must not be an adrenaline fueled activity, it must be a passion." selil, April 2016
I like Wombattles approach and Ron's philosophy. We do this thing because we enjoy it. If certificates on the wall are your thing, fill your boots. If just knowing yourself that you've done the ride works for you then great.
In the original article TJ shared the author clearly thinks that maximising his certificates is how he gets the best value from his distance riding. I'm glad that's working,out for him!
In the original article TJ shared the author clearly thinks that maximising his certificates is how he gets the best value from his distance riding. I'm glad that's working,out for him!
Very interesting viewpoints from all around and covering the spectrum of individual 'positions' on this topic. There are the 'positions'. The 'IBA Rules' and...The 'common interest' of us all in LDR...I am very fond of the latter.. allowing for and regardless of individual specific 'positions' on the matter, there are wide open spaces for me....and everyone else.
Forgive my resurrecting an old thread, but I'm a newby with only one SS1K last year. Be gentle. We're planning a trip, the middle of that trip will be the Pines to Palms, Our intent is to Ride a BB or BBG on the way to the start of the Pines to Palms, (if we take our time, let's say we get a BB in 36 hrs).
The the next morning we start our P2PG, if on the first leg of our P2PG we ride 1500 in 24 hrs or less, then the 2nd day continue onto KW, FL finishing the P2PG in under 48hrs (approx 2400 miles).
The submission for the BB or BBG getting to the start of the P2P would be allowed? (Ethically speaking within the IBA rules as is without considering nesting.)
Since the Pines to Palms Gold is a distinct ride, it should also be normally approved. (Assuming we make it that is). Now the Nesting question.
If we did do 1500 miles on leg one of the P2PG could we submit for a BBG while still getting (and finishing) the P2PG the next day?
I'm assuming (yes I know...) that if we submitted for a BBG on the first leg of the P2PG, we shouldn't/couldn't submit for a SS2000 (or SS2000G) as we finish the intended P2PG. Or could we? That would be 3 certifications in one P2PG which I get wouldn't be proper, but is it allowed?
But ... If we decided to then do a Palms to Pines Gold back north, could we also submit for a SS2000 on that 2 day 2300 mile ride and the P2PG Insanity within 48hrs?
AND we'll be driving over 6000 miles in 6 days. I'm again assuming that If I'm submitting (if it's even allowed) a BBG (Day 1), BBG Day 2 and P2PG (Day 2 and 3), SS2k and P2PGI (Day 4 and 5).
Here's a map
The the next morning we start our P2PG, if on the first leg of our P2PG we ride 1500 in 24 hrs or less, then the 2nd day continue onto KW, FL finishing the P2PG in under 48hrs (approx 2400 miles).
The submission for the BB or BBG getting to the start of the P2P would be allowed? (Ethically speaking within the IBA rules as is without considering nesting.)
Since the Pines to Palms Gold is a distinct ride, it should also be normally approved. (Assuming we make it that is). Now the Nesting question.
If we did do 1500 miles on leg one of the P2PG could we submit for a BBG while still getting (and finishing) the P2PG the next day?
I'm assuming (yes I know...) that if we submitted for a BBG on the first leg of the P2PG, we shouldn't/couldn't submit for a SS2000 (or SS2000G) as we finish the intended P2PG. Or could we? That would be 3 certifications in one P2PG which I get wouldn't be proper, but is it allowed?
But ... If we decided to then do a Palms to Pines Gold back north, could we also submit for a SS2000 on that 2 day 2300 mile ride and the P2PG Insanity within 48hrs?
AND we'll be driving over 6000 miles in 6 days. I'm again assuming that If I'm submitting (if it's even allowed) a BBG (Day 1), BBG Day 2 and P2PG (Day 2 and 3), SS2k and P2PGI (Day 4 and 5).
Here's a map