Pre-Ride Approval

Ira

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#2
What is the turn-around time on a pre ride approval? Is it along the same timeline as a SS1000 cert?
In general, there is no requirement for preride approval. To what ride do you refer?

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 

Ron

Active Member
#3
Dusty Butt 1000, I believe that does require approval...

Looking at it again; I presumed prior approval meant route approval. Is there a different type of “prior approval”?
 

Ira

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#4
Yes, the Dusty Butt 1000 is one of the few that does require prior approval. Yes, it is of the route, the main concerns being if the route is all dirt and what the documentation plan is (I would recommend a SPOT, InReach or other such satellite track log to document the ride).

To answer your original question, it should not take more than a week to turn around such an approval. If it takes any longer, please drop me a Forum message.

Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
 

Bill53

Premier Member
#5
A unique opportunity for a ride has presented itself, inspired by the Indianapolis 1000 and enabled by the current pandemic measures. What is information is required for the process ? The ride would be 15-16 laps around Toronto. Normally the route would be impossible due to the traffic density.
 

Ira

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#6
Mike is in the process of updating the in-city ride rules, so I've asked him what the new requirements will be. But in general, you will need to complete the entire ride within the city limits - not one inch can be outside those limits. I would also imagine that, in addition to the normal documentation requirements, he will also require that your entire ride be tracked by a GPS tracker compatible with Spotwalla.

I'll get back to you when he gets back to me.

Ira
 

Bill53

Premier Member
#7
I guess I'll need to know what defines a 'city'. We have an area officially defined as the 'GTA'. That translates to the Greater Toronto Area with Toronto as the centre. I anticipate the 'in-city ride rules' will help me define the route. As the route has the most intense traffic perhaps we can can call it the 'NerveBurnerRing 1600' as in Nurburg ring track in Germany !
 

Ira

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#8
There should exist a map of the Toronto city limits itself. That is what to use. I just used Google Maps and did a search on Toronto, ON and it came up with a map that outlines what I think is the city limits, but a more official map is what I would suggest and that's what we would go by. No "Greater Toronto Area" or "Toronto Metropolitan Statistical Area", or any other like designation. Any ride outside the official limits would not be considered an in-city ride - it would just be another Saddlesore 1000/Saddlesore 1600k, with the usual restrictions on overly-repetitive routes.

Ira
 

Bill53

Premier Member
#11
It's looking like a ride using 401 to 427 to queensway to Don Valley Parkway to 401, repeat ~ 25 times is going to be within the 'in city' rules. Now to plot it, plan it and conditions permitting ..... ride it !
 

Ira

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#12
As I said earlier, Mike has not yet finished the update to the in-city requirements, so you might want to hold off. Just out of curiosity, is Toronto locked down?

Mike also had the following general comments regarding going for rides at this time.

Ira

----------begin Mike's comments-------------------

We understand no one wants to be told to do, and even if you have the
argument that you will bring gloves for gas pumps and/or cleaner to
wipe them down and not interact with anyone, our friends in the
medical community are telling us (effectively), you do NOT want to be
in a hospital right now. While having an accident is probably
statistically not likely this is just when odd things happen. So I
did ask, while we are out there riding remotely, are rural hospitals
impacted? The overwhelming answers was mostly they funnel anything more
than a broken arm or leg to larger city-based hospitals which if not
already overrun are gearing up to deal with Covid-19 patients.

Reports from riders last week (before a lot of the business close
orders) are also saying that if you hit bad weather, there is nowhere
to shelter right now. Many states have closed Rest Stops (some
have opened them back up for truckers at least - but that still
leaves you out in the cold). Even truck stops are mostly closed for
any kind of sheltering and of course you can't legally ride in CA,
OR, WA, IL, OH and most of the Northeast and even more than we can
track right now. Many of our favorite stops for bathrooms have
closed them to the public, even normally dependable McDonald's have
closed many restrooms.

And finally, breaking down on the road is going to leave you stranded
as most motorcycle shops are closed starting today in most areas.

It is really time to hunker down and stay close to home and ride another day.

Mike
 

Bill53

Premier Member
#13
Thank you for those thoughts and cautions about riding at this time. Ontario's current state of lockdown is work centric. Essential businesses are still allowed to operate. I have family in Toronto which allows for restroom breaks and nourishment. As the weather will not comply for a few weeks I won't be embarking anytime soon.
 

dmcqueeney

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#14
It's looking like a ride using 401 to 427 to queensway to Don Valley Parkway to 401, repeat ~ 25 times is going to be within the 'in city' rules. Now to plot it, plan it and conditions permitting ..... ride it !
Greetings, Bill ...
My 2¢ worth.
Google Maps is useful for a general, high-level view of the outline of a city. But when zooming in to determine more precise boundaries, GM’s city outline fades away and eventually disappears; that's not helpful. Also, GM’s boundaries follow land areas, so a bridge over a waterway, for example, appears to be NOT in the city of interest.

For my In-City rides, I have used, and recommend, ACME Mapper to determine EXACT boundaries for any city (or county, state, province). Sometimes, a boundary is down the middle of a street or freeway (southern I-295 in Jacksonville, FL, for example); ACME Mapper will show this correctly. Jagged boundary lines are also accurately shown with ACME Mapper (Sacramento, Tucson, Chicago, as examples). Non-city “islands” surrounded by a city are also clearly indicated (San Diego, Jacksonville).

From your route description, and using Google Maps, which uses speed limit data in calculations …
The CCW loop, start/end on ON-401 just west of Don Valley Pkwy (arbitrary start/end point)
-- https://goo.gl/maps/WYDPviCYmyhnseV29
-- ON-401 W, ON-427 S, The Queensway E (and at its end, continue on Gardiner Expy E), Don Valley Pkwy N, ON-401 W
-- 39.8 miles (64 km), 56 minutes, avg speed 42.64 mph (68.57 kph)
-- your 25 laps would be 995 miles (1,600 km)
-- duration would be 23 hr 20 min (but that’s riding time only, with NO stops for fuel, food, breaks)

A slightly different interpretation would be the route as above, except from ON-427 S, Gardiner Expy E all the way to Don Valley Pkwy. (Maybe that was your intent, anyway?) ...
-- https://goo.gl/maps/DbZnFE4BftEcW2DB9
-- 39.6 miles (63.7 km), 42 minutes, avg speed 56.57 mph (91 kph)
-- 25 laps would be 990 miles (1,592 km)
-- duration would be 17 hr 30 min (also without the stops for fuel, food, breaks)
That seems feasible -- may need another lap, though, for "insurance" mileage!

Regards ... Dave
 

Bill53

Premier Member
#15
Thank you Dave and Ira for such quick responses ! As the riding here is just out of the garage this week I have a few things to research/plan and a lot of other things to consider. Mikes' cautions are duly noted as well !

Dave, the second route was my intention, and with off lap excursions for food, fuel and biological 19.5 to 20 hours was envisioned. Anyone with experience around Toronto would realize speed limits are largely irrevelent, and traffic in normal times would make this cert impossible !

As times are uncertain at best, I will certainly consider everything carefully before I decide to ride.
 
#16
To echo Dave's point that you need to determine exactly where the boundaries are - looking on the official Toronto map at Stephen's first link (and if there is an official map, I'd always rely on that), on Highway 427 north of 401, the northbound lanes are in the city, but southbound (and you have to go to the aerial maps to see this), the left two lanes are in the city, the right two lanes aren't, and the center lane is half in and half out. So it comes down to lane placement whether you stayed inside the boundaries.

Good thing we have Google Maps and other sources to help us with armchair riding right now.

toronto.JPG
 

dmcqueeney

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#17
To echo Dave's point that you need to determine exactly where the boundaries are - looking on the official Toronto map at Stephen's first link (and if there is an official map, I'd always rely on that), on Highway 427 north of 401, the northbound lanes are in the city, but southbound (and you have to go to the aerial maps to see this), the left two lanes are in the city, the right two lanes aren't, and the center lane is half in and half out. So it comes down to lane placement whether you stayed inside the boundaries.
Yes, David, that’s another apt illustration of a peculiar city boundary.
Fortunately, for Bill’s envisioned route, the interchange of West ON-401 and South ON-427 is about 1-1/2 miles southeast of that peculiarity, and the transition road is entirely within the Toronto city limits.
... Dave
 

dmcqueeney

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#18
Dave, the second route was my intention, and with off lap excursions for food, fuel and biological 19.5 to 20 hours was envisioned. Anyone with experience around Toronto would realize speed limits are largely irrevelent, and traffic in normal times would make this cert impossible !

As times are uncertain at best, I will certainly consider everything carefully before I decide to ride.
Bill, two further thoughts …

-- I’ve found that for an In-City SaddleSore, a start time of 4-6AM on a Sunday works well. That’s after the typical Saturday night revelry has subsided, allows use of all of the daylight hours on Sunday, and avoids the bulk of the Monday morning commuting traffic.

-- I expect the eventual published requirements for In-City rides will include SpotWalla tracking. This is already mandatory for several certified rides, including the 40-40 Insanity, Historic US-50 Coast to Coast, all 13 Interstate End to End rides, and some State “ride-around” quests. These refer to the SpotWalla Protocols for Ride Certifications page, which provides the specifics related to SpotWalla use.

… Dave
 

outdoorsntn

Premier Member
#19
Good info all of you have provided for setting up an In-City SaddleSore, thanks. I'm going to tag along and ask some more questions about setting up a Memphis In-City SaddleSore. ACME Mapper (Thanks Dave!) shows the complete I-40/I-240 loop within Memphis city limits and that loop is 31 miles using GM and BaseCamp. That loop needs to be completed 33 times under 24hrs. Question is: In setting up my route how many and where along the route do I need to obtain the required DBRs, or where do I need to press Spot's "OK" before I submit this ride for approval?

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/35.....1895803,-90.0169994,19.34z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

As a premier member I use and provide my Spotwalla link for my routes on all my submissions.

Thanks,
Doug Vance
Cordova, TN
 
#20
Google says that route is 31.4 miles counter-clockwise and 30.9 miles clockwise. So if you do 32 laps CCW it's 1004 miles; 33 laps CW is 1019.7 miles; 33 laps CCW = 1036.2 miles. Or maybe you reverse direction part way through for some variety and make the calculation really complicated. :)

When we planned the Chicago 1000, one of the goals was that the route mileage should divide as evenly as possible into 1000, so that the riders would hit 1000 miles comfortably but not excessively close to the end of a lap. (We had live witnesses, including Dave McQ, verifying the laps). Of course John Ryan had to go one extra lap at the risk of not finishing in 24 hours, and being John Ryan, of course he made it with some time to spare.