Rally Riding and Insurance

[Michael Moore]

Recently I bumped into an issue with Insurance and rally riding. I have GEICO insurance and under Item 7 (c) it states, "Use in any competitive riding or use on a race track or race course unless participating in a motorcycle safety course meeting the standards established by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, the All-terrain vehicle Safety Institute, or a similar safety council, program or institute."

"Competitive riding" could be interpreted as a poker run too, not just a rally or endurance ride.

The older policy stated this but has been replaced by above: Item 7 (e): "any contest which sanctions continuous riding for 24 or more hours and/or mileage accumulation in excess of 500 miles per 24 hour period." YIKES!! Broke that once or twice.

GEICO does not look like it is IBA or rally riding friendly. So my question is what insurance policies do others in our sport have that do not have such limitations?

I really should stop reading the fine print on these things... Sheesh!

 

[rodneyw71]

Well I have progressive and was trying to put the link in my message, it doesn't say anything about what you have, just says you can't race on a permanent or temporary track

 

[rodneyw71]

Had my policy number on it, probably not a good idea to have that out there.

 

[Paul Nelson]

I've been using GEICO for many years but just started doing more long distance rides. I did my first SS1000 last fall. GEICO has a 500-mile/day limit. I need to renew my insurance next month and I'm looking for a policy that will provide what I need to participate in some long distance rallies. That means no distance limits and a $500,000 combined single limit for liability.

Suggestions?

Thanks, -- Paul

 

[RFlagg42]

That means no distance limits and a $500,000 combined single limit for liability.

Before you run out and get $500,000 CSL, the only rally that I'm aware of which requires that much insurance is the IBR. Butt Lite requires $300,000 CSL. Most other rallies require less than that if they check at all.

 

[Patrick Ford]

Progressive will go for the 500 CSL. I have been told you can raise and lower it back after having the required coverage for the time period you need. Not tried it myself though.

 

[RFlagg42]

Progressive will go for the 500 CSL. I have been told you can raise and lower it back after having the required coverage for the time period you need. Not tried it myself though.

I've changed my Progressive coverage before and after every Butt Lite and IBR I've participated in. They didn't seem to care.

 

[FazerPhil]

I've used progressive for my UK bike in the USA. And for a USA bike I kept in the USA for a few years. On the UK bike I pay for a year and claim back the balance after the IBR. On the USA bike I took off the "collision" when between my trips when the bike was in storage. They need a USA address. I just use a fellow IBA members USA address. I event used the recovery once which worked well.

The insurance is generally cheaper than in the UK.

 

[DelB]

Recently I bumped into an issue with Insurance and rally riding. I have GEICO insurance and under Item 7 (c) it states, "Use in any competitive riding or use on a race track or race course unless participating in a motorcycle safety course meeting the standards established by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, the All-terrain vehicle Safety Institute, or a similar safety council, program or institute."

"Competitive riding" could be interpreted as a poker run too, not just a rally or endurance ride.

The older policy stated this but has been replaced by above: Item 7 (e): "any contest which sanctions continuous riding for 24 or more hours and/or mileage accumulation in excess of 500 miles per 24 hour period." YIKES!! Broke that once or twice.

GEICO does not look like it is IBA or rally riding friendly. So my question is what insurance policies do others in our sport have that do not have such limitations?

I really should stop reading the fine print on these things... Sheesh!

My question would be, who's gonna tell them? It's not like there is a sign on you bike that says, "Hey, look at me, I'm going over 500 miles in this 24 hour period."
If the rider doesn't rat on himself, who will??

 

[RFlagg42]

My question would be, who's gonna tell them? It's not like there is a sign on you bike that says, "Hey, look at me, I'm going over 500 miles in this 24 hour period."

I agree with you. I am not certainly going to volunteer the specifics of the ride I was on when talking to an insurance adjuster. I had a serious accident during Butt Lite, I was over 1,000 miles from home, and I had an Iron Butt Rally plate backer on my bike with the "11,000 miles in 11 days", and at no time did the adjuster ask me questions about my ride profile.

Having said that, with all the public information available on rallies and who the riders are, along with the fact that many of us have substantial online footprints which talk about motorcycling activities, it wouldn't take much of an investigation on the insurance company's part to raise suspicions. For your average accident, I suspect the person handling the claim is not going to dig below the surface, whether that be due to laziness or work overload doesn't matter. However, and I don't know this for a fact, but I have the impression that as the size of the insurance company's liability gets to more significant dollar amounts, the handling of the claim gets bumped up to higher level adjusters who may spend much more effort in trying to shed some liability. In other words, replacing the bike, vs. replacing the bike in addition to $100k+ of medical bills may generate a different level of investigative effort.

 

[Patrick Ford]

Amen to Eric, compare the value of your house to the cost of insurance other than GEICO.

 

[DelB]

I agree with you. I am not certainly going to volunteer the specifics of the ride I was on when talking to an insurance adjuster. I had a serious accident during Butt Lite, I was over 1,000 miles from home, and I had an Iron Butt Rally plate backer on my bike with the "11,000 miles in 11 days", and at no time did the adjuster ask me questions about my ride profile.

Having said that, with all the public information available on rallies and who the riders are, along with the fact that many of us have substantial online footprints which talk about motorcycling activities, it wouldn't take much of an investigation on the insurance company's part to raise suspicions. For your average accident, I suspect the person handling the claim is not going to dig below the surface, whether that be due to laziness or work overload doesn't matter. However, and I don't know this for a fact, but I have the impression that as the size of the insurance company's liability gets to more significant dollar amounts, the handling of the claim gets bumped up to higher level adjusters who may spend much more effort in trying to shed some liability. In other words, replacing the bike, vs. replacing the bike in addition to $100k+ of medical bills may generate a different level of investigative effort.

Very true.
But playing with your liability coverage a couple of times a year would, to me, draw a lot more attention without even having an accident.
My father worked for Safeco Ins. for over 30 years. He would mention that one of the indicators of suspicious circumstances is a change in a persons coverage. Many home owners and business owners would increase their coverage a couple of months before a fire or theft. This would elicit a more thorough investigation.

 

[RFlagg42]

Very true.
But playing with your liability coverage a couple of times a year would, to me, draw a lot more attention without even having an accident.
My father worked for Safeco Ins. for over 30 years. He would mention that one of the indicators of suspicious circumstances is a change in a persons coverage. Many home owners and business owners would increase their coverage a couple of months before a fire or theft. This would elicit a more thorough investigation.

Yeah, I've wondered about this very thing as I'm calling up Progressive to increase my coverage every summer--it makes sense. There are certainly reasonable explanations for doing it, but it is one more indicator which may cause someone to dig deeper.

 

[Michael Moore]

Having said that, with all the public information available on rallies and who the riders are, along with the fact that many of us have substantial online footprints which talk about motorcycling activities, it wouldn't take much of an investigation on the insurance company's part to raise suspicions. For your average accident, I suspect the person handling the claim is not going to dig below the surface, whether that be due to laziness or work overload doesn't matter. However, and I don't know this for a fact, but I have the impression that as the size of the insurance company's liability gets to more significant dollar amounts, the handling of the claim gets bumped up to higher level adjusters who may spend much more effort in trying to shed some liability. In other words, replacing the bike, vs. replacing the bike in addition to $100k+ of medical bills may generate a different level of investigative effort.

I agree with you that it would be the size of the claim that would determine if an investigator is involved and many of us have a significant on-line presence and it would not take much at all to give the insurance company a reason not to pay a claim.

 

[Paul Nelson]

Got a quote from Progressive for $255 for the year with full coverage for my Super Tenere and the $500,000 liability coverage. My GEICO coverage was only $159 a year but that was with all coverages at the minimum. For $100 a year more, that's a reasonable increase. The GEICO 500 mile limit was the deal breaker. I still have home and auto with them and have been a GEICO customer since the mid 70s with only one claim in all that time. I'll be sure and specify the 500 mile limit as my reason for switching. This makes me want to see if that clause is in my auto coverage as well.

Thanks for your help folks.

;-) Paul

 

[FazerPhil]

keep in mind this and other social media is public and could be used by insurance companies should you claim. Also should the worse happened and your route is on your GPS or rally book in your top box that could get to your insurance company.

 

[Michael Moore]

So I call GEICO today as my policy expires next month. I asked about the Item 7 (c) exclusion for 'Competitive riding' and said, I do poker runs does this mean those. I had to explain what a poker run was, she went away and came back yes it excludes those... Bought a Progressive policy that starts in a couple weeks. Starting today adds 10%, by the way, but if you go a couple weeks out it is cheaper.

 

[Chuck35]

I'm so glad I stumbled (google) across this thread.
Foremost bumped my rate (for no reason I'm aware of) and I had just got a quote to add a bike policy to my Geico auto account.
I guess I'll call the current folks and discuss deductibles and such.

 

[Paul Knight]

I spoke to my Geico rep and she sent me this from the policy documents

Exclusions
For XXX XXXXXX sustained while your covered cycle is used by any person competing in:
(a) any hill climbing exhibition;
(b) any race;
(c) any speed contest;
(d) any marathon-type contest; or
(e) any contest which sanctions continuous riding for 24 or more hours and/or mileage accumulation in excess of 500 miles per 24 hour period.

She assured me that riding over 500 miles in under 24 hours is covered.

I asked some very specific and pointed questions with regard to what is considered a "contest" . I explained the IBA 50CC, SS1000, BBG 1500 etc and she once again assured me that these are NOT competitions or contests.

She went to the IBA site and pulled down the details and is going to have someone from legal/underwriting get back to me in a week.

 

[Michael Moore]

Hey Paul,

What she did not send you is the "Motorcycle Policy Amendment" (Maybe it is just for Nevada, as a friend found the exact thing in his NV policy) that changes what you have above into this:

Exclusion 7. is replaced with the following (It is repeated for each section and is the same, I just cut and paste from bodily injury section):

7. For bodily injury or property damage losses sustained while your covered cycle is used in, or in preparation or practice for:

(a) Any hill climbing exhibition;
(b) Any racing, speed contest, or stunting activity of any nature;
(c) Use in any competitive riding or use on a race track or race course unless participating in a motorcycle safety course meeting the standards established by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, the All-terrain vehicle Safety Institute, or a similar safety council, program or institute

The person I talked with did not bother to go to underwriting. Let me know what they say. You would think somewhere on this forum is a lawyer who could throw down their thoughts.

Ultimately, I switched to progressive based on others have commented on it this forum, read their policy and I appear to be covered. It cost $120 more, but for my piece of mind it is worth it.