What is a Scooter?
- Thread starter OldCrow
- Start date
The question you have answered already in this thread so all good. I was asking about a specific event that was held in May for scooters, and I have been informed that it was only held last year and is not being repeated this year. Thanks for your help so I shall make my ride in May when the weather is better, cheers Julian.
Just to toss out an example of scooter definition for a different group, the Scooter CannonBall Run folks define it this way:
A scooter is a two or three wheeled vehicle that satisfies AT LEAST THREE OF FIVE of the following conditions:
1 unit construction of engine, transmission and rear swingarm.
2 wheels no larger than 10in.
3 originally equipped with a step-through style frame.
4 originally equipped with running boards or leg shield.
5 a single cylinder engine design.
They have given exceptions to allow Honda Trail 125s and older Honda Trails, some Cushman scooters and a few other oddball options.
In my case, the Honda ADV150 looks like a scooter to virtually everyone, but has 13" and 14" wheels, and only a semi step through frame. It qualifies for 1, 4 & 5 and some argue 3, so fits their definition of a scooter.
The Honda Trail 125 qualifies for only 3 & 5, so needed an exception. The Honda SuperCub on the other hand, qualifies for 3, 4, (leg shields), & 5 making it a fit for their rules w/o issue.
That offers a pretty inclusive list w/o needing too many rulings for odd ducks that people might want to ride a SS1K on.
A scooter is a two or three wheeled vehicle that satisfies AT LEAST THREE OF FIVE of the following conditions:
1 unit construction of engine, transmission and rear swingarm.
2 wheels no larger than 10in.
3 originally equipped with a step-through style frame.
4 originally equipped with running boards or leg shield.
5 a single cylinder engine design.
They have given exceptions to allow Honda Trail 125s and older Honda Trails, some Cushman scooters and a few other oddball options.
In my case, the Honda ADV150 looks like a scooter to virtually everyone, but has 13" and 14" wheels, and only a semi step through frame. It qualifies for 1, 4 & 5 and some argue 3, so fits their definition of a scooter.
The Honda Trail 125 qualifies for only 3 & 5, so needed an exception. The Honda SuperCub on the other hand, qualifies for 3, 4, (leg shields), & 5 making it a fit for their rules w/o issue.
That offers a pretty inclusive list w/o needing too many rulings for odd ducks that people might want to ride a SS1K on.
Ira: None actually. I am just trying to stay current. If/when I talk to scooter riders, I would like to have accurate info. And it is always fun to see where the definition lines are drawn and the hair splitting starts. Any definition would have to stand the test of time.
ALL: If I was trying to create the litmus test for any given scooter specs, I would insist that the ladies be consulted. If a female attired in a long dress, be it sheath or full, could ride/operate the scoot in question (including ease of parking) to an event requiring such attire without mussing it too much, I would be inclined to accept that scoot as such.
ADVRider has a thread devoted to females on scooters if one needs some inspiration? Recently, I was in Canada when I found out that youths as young as 14 can get scooter licenses. Perhaps Canada's definition of scooter should be considered?
Perhaps one must consider the history of the scooter and what it was designed to do in the first place? Sticking close to those parameters might be best. And then create a separate class/division for modern, power scooters? I would not want the efforts of a 2-up couple on a Wasp following the route of the Mille Miglia to be diluted by riders on a power scooter. (Conversely to be fair, the IBR might have enough mandatory single track to keep the Wings honest?)
If I was in Mike's position, I might rule out scooters because of a lack of speed defined by the lack of horsepower much the same as small bikes have been ruled out of the IBR? Power scoots would become MCs de facto. Certs would read as the manufacturer labels the bike.
IF... a scoot was entered in the IBR, would the aux fuel mount be restricted to anyplace other than the step-thru area in order to maintain the 'step-thru' scoot spec? What happens when the aux fuel is mounted there anyway for all certs not collected on an IBR?
As a dyed in the wool Hopeless Class fan, I am all for riders trying to have the most fun doing it the hardest way possible. Doing a ride by scooter should be harder than by MC. And it should be obvious.
jus' musin',
fran
ALL: If I was trying to create the litmus test for any given scooter specs, I would insist that the ladies be consulted. If a female attired in a long dress, be it sheath or full, could ride/operate the scoot in question (including ease of parking) to an event requiring such attire without mussing it too much, I would be inclined to accept that scoot as such.
ADVRider has a thread devoted to females on scooters if one needs some inspiration? Recently, I was in Canada when I found out that youths as young as 14 can get scooter licenses. Perhaps Canada's definition of scooter should be considered?
Perhaps one must consider the history of the scooter and what it was designed to do in the first place? Sticking close to those parameters might be best. And then create a separate class/division for modern, power scooters? I would not want the efforts of a 2-up couple on a Wasp following the route of the Mille Miglia to be diluted by riders on a power scooter. (Conversely to be fair, the IBR might have enough mandatory single track to keep the Wings honest?)
If I was in Mike's position, I might rule out scooters because of a lack of speed defined by the lack of horsepower much the same as small bikes have been ruled out of the IBR? Power scoots would become MCs de facto. Certs would read as the manufacturer labels the bike.
IF... a scoot was entered in the IBR, would the aux fuel mount be restricted to anyplace other than the step-thru area in order to maintain the 'step-thru' scoot spec? What happens when the aux fuel is mounted there anyway for all certs not collected on an IBR?
As a dyed in the wool Hopeless Class fan, I am all for riders trying to have the most fun doing it the hardest way possible. Doing a ride by scooter should be harder than by MC. And it should be obvious.
jus' musin',
fran
This is exactly why we currently do not have a strict definition - hair-splitting and trying to game whatever definition one comes up with is not what we want to encourage.
There is a similar problem with regard to trikes - what is a trike and what is a car? There are some vehicles that are clearly trikes, like those based upon Harleys or Gold Wings. Where it starts to get sticky is those not based upon motorcycles. For example, we allow Can Am Spyders, which have saddles, handlebars, and a front-and-back seating position. But we do not approve Slingshots, with steering wheels, seats, and side-by-side seating. It gets even stickier when it comes to home-built vehicles, with extended forks, handlebars, and Chevy 350 engines.
So there is some advantage in using the case-by-case method for some vehicles instead of arguing over every hair.
Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
There is a similar problem with regard to trikes - what is a trike and what is a car? There are some vehicles that are clearly trikes, like those based upon Harleys or Gold Wings. Where it starts to get sticky is those not based upon motorcycles. For example, we allow Can Am Spyders, which have saddles, handlebars, and a front-and-back seating position. But we do not approve Slingshots, with steering wheels, seats, and side-by-side seating. It gets even stickier when it comes to home-built vehicles, with extended forks, handlebars, and Chevy 350 engines.
So there is some advantage in using the case-by-case method for some vehicles instead of arguing over every hair.
Ira Agins
Iron Butt Association
The scooter rides include the following from this list
Scooter 1000 (SS1K rules)
Scooter 1000 Gold (<300cc)
Scooter 1500 BB1500 rules
Scooter 1500 Insanity (BBG rules and <300cc)
The BB Silver, 1500 in 30 hours is not specifically listed under the scooter listings, much less <300cc version. Do it and maybe they will call it a 'Scooter 1500 Silver Insanity' or you could think up a name you like and ask for it as a new ride listing.
Scooter 1000 (SS1K rules)
Scooter 1000 Gold (<300cc)
Scooter 1500 BB1500 rules
Scooter 1500 Insanity (BBG rules and <300cc)
The BB Silver, 1500 in 30 hours is not specifically listed under the scooter listings, much less <300cc version. Do it and maybe they will call it a 'Scooter 1500 Silver Insanity' or you could think up a name you like and ask for it as a new ride listing.
Depends on the 150. My Honda ADV, yep, no way to do a BBG. My former Buddy 150 would hold 70 mph though, so the right route, a good plan, extra fuel, maybe, but boy would it be tight. However, you just said <300 at first, and there are Vespa/Piaggio 300s that are actually 280cc that could easily do a BBG. Plus some of the newer EFI 250s out there.
I'm not sure I could have done a BB1500 Silver on my 150. It took me 22 hours to do the SS1K. That pace would have come up short for 30 hours at around 1445 miles. I was on the Natchez Trace with a 50 mph speed limit, but with the hills, I don't know.
I'm not sure I could have done a BB1500 Silver on my 150. It took me 22 hours to do the SS1K. That pace would have come up short for 30 hours at around 1445 miles. I was on the Natchez Trace with a 50 mph speed limit, but with the hills, I don't know.